It will now be totally ignored while we do what we want, ha ha.
Seriously thanks, it gives us feedback which will help the nutcases who arrange events have new ideas to try.
Events, Kiting ,windsurfing, Lakawa and Fleet 8
Moderator: MK
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steveb
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:31 pm
- Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
I was thinking about my post after leaving it. One thing I do like to watch is pros going off, either in competition or just riding. The finals of the first Kitefreeze were a classic example. The spectators were within a hundred feet of the riders, cheering them on and there was a tight competition eventually getting down between Romain and Alex (we all know who took it). The building energy in the crowd and in the riding was great.
Though for that kind of experience to happen you need the following:
Develop a sponsorship package and media plan 6+ months prior to the event, spelling out the publicity they will get for their dollars (it's the publicity and the association with an extreme sport that is of value not the actual event)
Court sponsors to raise money
Announce and promote the event and try to attract pro level riders with prize $. (unless you have great visibility like the Kites on Ice, then the pros are told to attend by their sponsors)
Then make the whole thing happen promotion, insurance, permits, porta potties, Medics, registration, parking, etc etc (huge activity by many)
Then have the heavens part, Venus align with Mars and the wind blow for the event.
That probably sounds a bit pessimistic. sorry.
One interesting note is that I have learned that non kiting sponsors of events like this and events like the City Loppet (which has been plagued by poor conditions) get great value in the ad campaign and the association with the event even when the event may not be a success from a competitor standpoint. A lot of times it is cost effective advertising and branding for them.
The value to kiting manufacturers is a bit different. They typically are looking for maximum exposure for the general public, lessons or demos being available, and other ways to bring new people/customers into the sport. Most are willing to provide some product as prizes to increase their presense in the community, but the big $ is probably found elsewhere.
It's a tough one. Being involved in most of the events so far, I have a new appreciation for what Mike Fox has done the last 25 years. I'm still leaning toward the gathering as a good model. I think if we had a bit more wind during the weekend we might have been able to throw together a loose competition. I always enjoy watching, Denis, Matt, Eric, Chris, Joe, Stroh, Todd, and all you homies going off, whether competition or not.
Though for that kind of experience to happen you need the following:
Develop a sponsorship package and media plan 6+ months prior to the event, spelling out the publicity they will get for their dollars (it's the publicity and the association with an extreme sport that is of value not the actual event)
Court sponsors to raise money
Announce and promote the event and try to attract pro level riders with prize $. (unless you have great visibility like the Kites on Ice, then the pros are told to attend by their sponsors)
Then make the whole thing happen promotion, insurance, permits, porta potties, Medics, registration, parking, etc etc (huge activity by many)
Then have the heavens part, Venus align with Mars and the wind blow for the event.
That probably sounds a bit pessimistic. sorry.
One interesting note is that I have learned that non kiting sponsors of events like this and events like the City Loppet (which has been plagued by poor conditions) get great value in the ad campaign and the association with the event even when the event may not be a success from a competitor standpoint. A lot of times it is cost effective advertising and branding for them.
The value to kiting manufacturers is a bit different. They typically are looking for maximum exposure for the general public, lessons or demos being available, and other ways to bring new people/customers into the sport. Most are willing to provide some product as prizes to increase their presense in the community, but the big $ is probably found elsewhere.
It's a tough one. Being involved in most of the events so far, I have a new appreciation for what Mike Fox has done the last 25 years. I'm still leaning toward the gathering as a good model. I think if we had a bit more wind during the weekend we might have been able to throw together a loose competition. I always enjoy watching, Denis, Matt, Eric, Chris, Joe, Stroh, Todd, and all you homies going off, whether competition or not.
Tighe
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Dean Rizer
- Posts: 319
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:52 pm
Fleet 8, 1974-75 was our areas designated fleet for original teak boom etc one design windsurfers. We raced locally at Harriet, then Calhoun, and later in larger regional and national multi fleet events. Later annual events surfaced and stuck; Waconia wind and wave, The Mille Lacs crossing. Tonka Crossing etc. Some events like the Tonka Crossing faded because of local restrictions and very expensive insurance requirements. Individuals and corporations faced some potentially serious legal entanglements. Over the years the fleet has morphed to accomodate changing equipment and interests. From almost day one Mike Fox has either participated in or managed the events. Saftey has always been the number one concern. There have always been saftey boats, aceess to rapidly developing weather situations, a designated person who has the final go no go say in addition to standard rules of rightaway and safe sailing that everyone was expected to know and practice.
From that experience I have learned I like:
Gatherings with people who share my interest in wind sports.
Saftey, I am not endangering others and others are not endangering me.
A safe launch, large enough area to accomodate the expected group.
Respect for local laws, rules, etc. leaving the site as we found it.
Some orginization re. Agenda, timing,communication, location, saftey,
weather, newbie clinics, acess to rescue craft if needed.
No commercial tie in's or sponsors.
I would liken this to a family reunion; Volunteer staff, Everyone makes it happen No incorporated entity, no insurance required. I would be willing to pay administration dues, to fund printing, communication etc. I would be willing to contribute towards the reimbursement of an individuals expenses relating to the use of his/ her boat personal watercraft etc during the event. I would be willing to volunteer my time to help plan, organize, or staff where needed either pre our during the event.
If Mike or someone else who understands family reunions want's to take the initial steps, I would support the effort any way I can.
From that experience I have learned I like:
Gatherings with people who share my interest in wind sports.
Saftey, I am not endangering others and others are not endangering me.
A safe launch, large enough area to accomodate the expected group.
Respect for local laws, rules, etc. leaving the site as we found it.
Some orginization re. Agenda, timing,communication, location, saftey,
weather, newbie clinics, acess to rescue craft if needed.
No commercial tie in's or sponsors.
I would liken this to a family reunion; Volunteer staff, Everyone makes it happen No incorporated entity, no insurance required. I would be willing to pay administration dues, to fund printing, communication etc. I would be willing to contribute towards the reimbursement of an individuals expenses relating to the use of his/ her boat personal watercraft etc during the event. I would be willing to volunteer my time to help plan, organize, or staff where needed either pre our during the event.
If Mike or someone else who understands family reunions want's to take the initial steps, I would support the effort any way I can.
This is where paying an annual membership fee will come in. All of those things mentioned can't happen without $$. Also, this is where an excecutive needs to be established to keep doing such great events in the future. A good start would be to establish a annual fee, and perhaps have a show of hands to form an executive of some sort."Then make the whole thing happen promotion, insurance, permits, porta potties, Medics, registration, parking, etc etc (huge activity by many)"
Everyone benefits from attending events/gatherings!
Woody
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Dean Rizer
- Posts: 319
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:52 pm
How about establishing a small comittiee. Steve, Mike, others? The comittee develops a brief statement as to the purpose of the entity, number of annual events, scope of authority etc. This statement goes out to potential members for show of interest in participating. Once the scope of participation is set, expenses can be detailed and membership dues can be estimated.
Armed with this info we should be able to get a qualified legal opinion as to potential exposure and insurance coverage needs. Annual costs could be closly estimated and that figure divided by the most recent show of hands will give us an accurate initial dues structure.
Armed with this info we should be able to get a qualified legal opinion as to potential exposure and insurance coverage needs. Annual costs could be closly estimated and that figure divided by the most recent show of hands will give us an accurate initial dues structure.
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johnbaker17
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:23 am
- Location: White Bear Lake, MN
Nearly everyone wants more events, but there will never be agreement on whether they should be races, clinics, judged competitions, sponsor demos, food & entertainment, or non-competitive sessions. Ideally there would be a couple 'all-inclusive' events each year and an assortment of the other types of events. It would take a well stoked organization to put on this kind of schedule.
FL8 has done a fine job of putting on events for the windsurfing community over the past 25 years and has begun to expand it's scope. Now is the time to integrate the windsurf & kite communities, form some committees, and ramp up an organization that could plan, orgaqnize, insure, staff and run windpowered events that we'll all enjoy.
FL8 has done a fine job of putting on events for the windsurfing community over the past 25 years and has begun to expand it's scope. Now is the time to integrate the windsurf & kite communities, form some committees, and ramp up an organization that could plan, orgaqnize, insure, staff and run windpowered events that we'll all enjoy.
I would be willing to pay a membership fee to help pay for events that I'm willing to go to. As a beginner I'm not so concerned about racing others, as I am just staying up on the water, meeting other kiters, and getting a feel for the lakes around the cities.
Regarding access issues, is anybody keeping their eyes open for any city/park board that wants to restrict access? If we get more organized, we could have a few people defend kiteboarding in front of city councils or park boards whenever someone mixes up kite-tubes with real kites and gets them both banned.
On a side-note, I also think it would be nice to have a calendar on this site so kiters can post an informal non-event on lake so-and-so. So a small group of others can look it up and meet up quickly, without insurance hassles.
Just my 2¥
Regarding access issues, is anybody keeping their eyes open for any city/park board that wants to restrict access? If we get more organized, we could have a few people defend kiteboarding in front of city councils or park boards whenever someone mixes up kite-tubes with real kites and gets them both banned.
On a side-note, I also think it would be nice to have a calendar on this site so kiters can post an informal non-event on lake so-and-so. So a small group of others can look it up and meet up quickly, without insurance hassles.
Just my 2¥
I want to thank Steve for opening up this discussion. He and I had been exploring the possibility of Fleet 8 serving the total wind community. Steve was very active in Fleet 8 windsurfing for many years before he got tangled up in his kite lines. Dean Rizer should be Fleet historian since he was involved even before I was. He was part of the organizational energy that brought us to Mille Lacs for the first Crossing. Woody and Lars have become the fresh voices of Fleet 8.
I have enjoyed and am very encouraged by the full range of discussion and interest that came forward. I hope to answer some of the questions and concerns. For quite some time, the future of Fleet 8 after the 25th Crossing has been in question. We are challenged with the loss of some of the committment and experience within our volunteer staff as well as many other concerns with changes going on around the lake. Brad Woodworth, aka Woody, the chilli smuggler, Larry Miller, aka Lars, and Larry Reed, an undocumented immigrant from Iowa, have stepped forward to help direct Fleet 8 into a fourth decade of serving the wind community.
Fleet 8 didn't invent the Internet and we certainly didn't invent kiting. But there has been an involvement with events since the beginning. Much of the organizational energy that created the Kite Freeze came from active Fleet 8 windsurfers. They were able to tap the resources and volunteer pool to help. With two world-class events like the Kite Freeze and the Crossing, the birth of the Kite Crossing seemed only natural.
Fleet 8 is not all about racing. The need for increased safety with the growing complexity of the windsurfer Crossing made it a high-maintenance energy-hog. Events like the 'gathering' were always part of the Fleet 8 schedule in the early years. But they were a bit more work since we didn't have the benefit of the Internet.
Insurance is the key hurdle that we need to clear. We are able to insure all of our windsurfing events for $100, pennies compared to the quotes we've collected for kiting. When we lost insurance for the '04 Kite Freeze, we scrambled to find a replacement. The $2500 policy that Steve mentioned is used by several kiting businesses that promote events. Even without the high cost, it is not a perfect answer. Researching insurance remains at the top of the list and we appreciate the input we received earlier. Once we find reasonable insurance, budgets can be determined and most everything else should fall into place.
I probably could keep going, but I will close hoping that further discussion will continue. I look forward to addressing any question or concern someone might have. My dedication to Fleet 8 is really aimed at the people, both participants and volunteers, who have made our events so successful.
Michael
I have enjoyed and am very encouraged by the full range of discussion and interest that came forward. I hope to answer some of the questions and concerns. For quite some time, the future of Fleet 8 after the 25th Crossing has been in question. We are challenged with the loss of some of the committment and experience within our volunteer staff as well as many other concerns with changes going on around the lake. Brad Woodworth, aka Woody, the chilli smuggler, Larry Miller, aka Lars, and Larry Reed, an undocumented immigrant from Iowa, have stepped forward to help direct Fleet 8 into a fourth decade of serving the wind community.
Fleet 8 didn't invent the Internet and we certainly didn't invent kiting. But there has been an involvement with events since the beginning. Much of the organizational energy that created the Kite Freeze came from active Fleet 8 windsurfers. They were able to tap the resources and volunteer pool to help. With two world-class events like the Kite Freeze and the Crossing, the birth of the Kite Crossing seemed only natural.
Fleet 8 is not all about racing. The need for increased safety with the growing complexity of the windsurfer Crossing made it a high-maintenance energy-hog. Events like the 'gathering' were always part of the Fleet 8 schedule in the early years. But they were a bit more work since we didn't have the benefit of the Internet.
Insurance is the key hurdle that we need to clear. We are able to insure all of our windsurfing events for $100, pennies compared to the quotes we've collected for kiting. When we lost insurance for the '04 Kite Freeze, we scrambled to find a replacement. The $2500 policy that Steve mentioned is used by several kiting businesses that promote events. Even without the high cost, it is not a perfect answer. Researching insurance remains at the top of the list and we appreciate the input we received earlier. Once we find reasonable insurance, budgets can be determined and most everything else should fall into place.
I probably could keep going, but I will close hoping that further discussion will continue. I look forward to addressing any question or concern someone might have. My dedication to Fleet 8 is really aimed at the people, both participants and volunteers, who have made our events so successful.
Michael
Director of Fleet 8
fleet-8@juno.com
fleet-8@juno.com
Michael:
Thanks for responding with a thoughtful, very informative post. I am assuming the best way to start getting involved with Fleet 8 is to join for 2006, which I will gladly do for the bargain basement price of $20. The form is available in the Events section. I can't find any old F8 newsletters from 2004? so I'm a little out of touch, but I from the posts here I am excited to hear F8 is interested in serving the Total Wind Community.
I think it might be helpful for someone to also suggest the next specific step wind addicts can take to move this concept forward… post more on LAKAWA? Join F8? Email you or Steve? All or none of the above?
Anyway, my intuition & experience tells me F8 can be a key organization in helping the wind community in this area grow and prosper.
Thanks also to Steve B. for posting the original message on this… I think it got a lot of wind-homies thinking!
Thanks for responding with a thoughtful, very informative post. I am assuming the best way to start getting involved with Fleet 8 is to join for 2006, which I will gladly do for the bargain basement price of $20. The form is available in the Events section. I can't find any old F8 newsletters from 2004? so I'm a little out of touch, but I from the posts here I am excited to hear F8 is interested in serving the Total Wind Community.
I think it might be helpful for someone to also suggest the next specific step wind addicts can take to move this concept forward… post more on LAKAWA? Join F8? Email you or Steve? All or none of the above?
Anyway, my intuition & experience tells me F8 can be a key organization in helping the wind community in this area grow and prosper.
Thanks also to Steve B. for posting the original message on this… I think it got a lot of wind-homies thinking!
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steveb
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:31 pm
- Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
We' re going to see what insurance can be found, if any of you guys are in the industry and have any suggestions for companies to contact ,please let us know.
We are trying to come up with a way for some to kiters to do the Mille lacs crossing and then the next big session is the winter crossing.
In fall it may be fun to do another Gathering type event for a water last hurrah, maybe in September?. Same as the last one very low key, maybe line up experienced guys helping newbies or answering questions type of thing?.Something I thought may be kind of fun is to have a session where we swap gear and get a chance to try other brands, just a suggestion.
We are trying to come up with a way for some to kiters to do the Mille lacs crossing and then the next big session is the winter crossing.
In fall it may be fun to do another Gathering type event for a water last hurrah, maybe in September?. Same as the last one very low key, maybe line up experienced guys helping newbies or answering questions type of thing?.Something I thought may be kind of fun is to have a session where we swap gear and get a chance to try other brands, just a suggestion.