Tighe, John, Eric and I got together and loosely ( very Loosely) planned the Gathering. Our biggest problem was we could not really be the organizers as it would open us up for liability, somthing we had no coverage for.
It's also very hard to get event sponsors when you have no insurance as the sponsors open themselves up for liability in lieu of no insurance.
Windsurfing has a local organization called Fleet 8 that has arranged races and had insurance through USWA, Mike Fox who heads up fleet 8 has found a company that will provide insurance coverage for kiting events but it ain't cheap. About $ 2500 for a years coverage.
So....the question to Kiters is are you interested in having organized events like The Gathering and the winter Mille Lacs kite crossing. If you are interested are you willing to join an organisation paying a membership which will help raise the insurance we need. Once we get the ball rolling would some of you be willing to help find sponsors, help organize the events etc.
The first event would be the Mille Lacs Crossing ,the water version, in early fall. There have been some conversations about finding a way to open up this event or a version of this event to kiters. Bear in mind the winter versions of the crossing had no real coverage and the organizers are kind of nervous of doing it again without coverage for some liability protection. During the ice storm there were some nervous moments wondering where people were etc.
The gathering we had 50 odd kiters out, + family, boyfriends, girlfriends, partners etc so their was a 100 odd people out there having fun. So people are interested in some form of events.
I'd like to hear some response as to your interest, is an organisation a good idea?, are you willing to pay a nominal fee for that organization?, if we decide to go ahead what kind of events would you enjoy?. What would you like from the community.
I like the idea of trying to have some educational events like " learn your back roll" day, " Looping for lunatics " etc etc. If we have a true organisation we may be able to attract real team riders to teach some of these events etc.
So let us know what you think,I should point out that Fleet 8 is a non profit, it's not as though running these local events has ever been a money maker for anyone who's run one, to the contrary it usually costs you money.
Events, Kiting ,windsurfing, Lakawa and Fleet 8
Moderator: MK
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steveb
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toyletbowl
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- Location: madison ,wi...planet earth
steve,
i know i'm out of the area, but with helping organize the kites on ice in madison, this looks like a good idea.
question though. windsurfing would seem to be much much less risky for an underwriter to price.
would the insurance cost the same for kite events? would each individual event need a seperate policy?
unfortunately I don't know these answers, but I'm curious myself.
btw...did you guys get winds today...sunday?
our 15-25 never came through. 5-15 was more like it, but had a great time anyway.
i know i'm out of the area, but with helping organize the kites on ice in madison, this looks like a good idea.
question though. windsurfing would seem to be much much less risky for an underwriter to price.
would the insurance cost the same for kite events? would each individual event need a seperate policy?
unfortunately I don't know these answers, but I'm curious myself.
btw...did you guys get winds today...sunday?
our 15-25 never came through. 5-15 was more like it, but had a great time anyway.
bob
kiteridersllc.com
madtown, wi. usa
planet earth.
kiteridersllc.com
madtown, wi. usa
planet earth.
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steveb
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SCOTT RIDOUT
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- Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 12:45 pm
- Location: CHAMPLIN, MINNESOTA
Here's an idea if someone has questions on insurance, call Real Kiteboarding and ask to speak with Matt Nusso or Trip Forman, they hold kiteboarding events all the time in Hatteras, they should be able to give so input on the subject, just ask the people who do it what insurance they use and maybe they could hook you up?
Events here in Minnesota I think are a great idea, but as everyone see's every time something is organized it's iether no participation as far as helping putting the thing together or something always come up that ruins the event. Until the people in Minnesota REALLY take the idea serious and REALLY get some commitment from more people in the community I don't think it's worth the time, meaning people show up for an event and the event is so unorganized people just get ticked off and complain. I tried helping a couple of times in my very small way and all I always heard was the complaining.
Events here in Minnesota I think are a great idea, but as everyone see's every time something is organized it's iether no participation as far as helping putting the thing together or something always come up that ruins the event. Until the people in Minnesota REALLY take the idea serious and REALLY get some commitment from more people in the community I don't think it's worth the time, meaning people show up for an event and the event is so unorganized people just get ticked off and complain. I tried helping a couple of times in my very small way and all I always heard was the complaining.
I think a club is a great idea, it seems like the best way to address issues such as insurance, events, access, safety, etc.
I do accounting as a hobby so I can do stuff like this:
Insurance Members Per person
2500 1 2500
10 250
25 100
50 50
100 25
250 10
So if you get enough people the cost isn't so bad. I would think maybe voluntary membership levels might work kind of like PBS for people of different means. For example:
$25 Grom
$50 Ripper
$100 Big Kahuna
$100+ Rockstar
Anyway, in addition to events I would think periodic "meetings" would make sense (with a social time after of course) to cover event planning & review, access, safety, community relations, whatever.
I do accounting as a hobby so I can do stuff like this:
Insurance Members Per person
2500 1 2500
10 250
25 100
50 50
100 25
250 10
So if you get enough people the cost isn't so bad. I would think maybe voluntary membership levels might work kind of like PBS for people of different means. For example:
$25 Grom
$50 Ripper
$100 Big Kahuna
$100+ Rockstar
Anyway, in addition to events I would think periodic "meetings" would make sense (with a social time after of course) to cover event planning & review, access, safety, community relations, whatever.
Great topic Steve. The topic of PASA rider certifications got me thinking about whether or not it would make sense to have a local Association or organization. As far as access issues are concerned it might help to have that in place prior to an incident.
As far as events go, I've been involved in almost all of them and I have to agree with Scott, much more commitment and organization is needed. Or we just go the other way, like we did with the gathering last weekend and just put a date out there for a free ride. I think both offer something to the community.
I like the idea of some Wind Addict Association (WAA) that organizes events, clinics, access issues, etc. Before I pay into something like that I'd like to see that there is an organization in place and that members are informed, at least yearly, of budget allocations. Bringing sponsors in for this type of organization opens another can of worms. I'd rather see the organization supported by the community and then individual events sponsored by various manufacturers.
Insurance is a tough one. If the insurance that Mike was talking about is the one we were investigating for the events last winter, the requirements may not feasable for our purposes. As Scott points out though, there are numerous events that take place around the country, let's not reinvent the wheel here. A call to Matt at Real, or Bucky Ashcroft of the Velocity Games, might be a good place to start.
There was an attempt last year to combine some of the events into a circuit, locally and nationally, where riders could go from one event to another, maybe for a combined score, and promotion and workload redundancies would be reduced. If that happens distributing the costs involved across numerous events make them less taxing on any one event as well. I think your idea Steve of an ongoing organizating makes sense for the same reasons.
Not sure if I had any point to any of this, and I'm only half way through my first cup of joe...but just a few thoughts.
As far as events go, I've been involved in almost all of them and I have to agree with Scott, much more commitment and organization is needed. Or we just go the other way, like we did with the gathering last weekend and just put a date out there for a free ride. I think both offer something to the community.
I like the idea of some Wind Addict Association (WAA) that organizes events, clinics, access issues, etc. Before I pay into something like that I'd like to see that there is an organization in place and that members are informed, at least yearly, of budget allocations. Bringing sponsors in for this type of organization opens another can of worms. I'd rather see the organization supported by the community and then individual events sponsored by various manufacturers.
Insurance is a tough one. If the insurance that Mike was talking about is the one we were investigating for the events last winter, the requirements may not feasable for our purposes. As Scott points out though, there are numerous events that take place around the country, let's not reinvent the wheel here. A call to Matt at Real, or Bucky Ashcroft of the Velocity Games, might be a good place to start.
There was an attempt last year to combine some of the events into a circuit, locally and nationally, where riders could go from one event to another, maybe for a combined score, and promotion and workload redundancies would be reduced. If that happens distributing the costs involved across numerous events make them less taxing on any one event as well. I think your idea Steve of an ongoing organizating makes sense for the same reasons.
Not sure if I had any point to any of this, and I'm only half way through my first cup of joe...but just a few thoughts.
Tighe
Why start a 'new' club when you can use Fleet8 and its 30+yrs of history as a vehicle of support for events, sponsors, insurance etc.
Mike Fox has let it be known that he'd like to see some 'new blood' taking control of Fleet8 and getting the wind community molded as one. This is an excellent opportunity for just that, having windsurfers and kiters in the same events! Personally I'd love to compete against, or with the kiters in some sort of 'Team' challenge!!
Tighe, I like the idea of an executive with budgets etc. we just need people to step up to the plate.
Woody
Mike Fox has let it be known that he'd like to see some 'new blood' taking control of Fleet8 and getting the wind community molded as one. This is an excellent opportunity for just that, having windsurfers and kiters in the same events! Personally I'd love to compete against, or with the kiters in some sort of 'Team' challenge!!
Tighe, I like the idea of an executive with budgets etc. we just need people to step up to the plate.
Woody
Fleet 8, Kite Division.. . it has a certain ring to it! Maybe Freeride Division would work for non-race events involving kite and/or windsurf?
For what it's worth I would be happy to help with assembling a budget and facilitating approval from the necessary Fleet 8 authorities, as well as assisting with publishing said budget, dues receipts and actual expenditures against the budget. Sounds like a gas!
For what it's worth I would be happy to help with assembling a budget and facilitating approval from the necessary Fleet 8 authorities, as well as assisting with publishing said budget, dues receipts and actual expenditures against the budget. Sounds like a gas!
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SCOTT RIDOUT
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 12:45 pm
- Location: CHAMPLIN, MINNESOTA
This a great subject to chat about, the idea's keep flowing!
I really only have one concern with lets call it a certification to be able to ride in certain area's, I think it would take quite a bit of pull to actually not allow someone to use a public area, you would have to have the full clout ofthe DNR and Sherrif behind you and supporting you 100%. The reason I say this is you know how people are, you step up and tell them they cannot launch here because they are not certified with whatever certification you say is required and more than likely it's going to be a nasty word and then they go out anyway, to try and regulate who can use a public area without getting sued or in a fist fight might be a challenge? I don't mean to be negative but I have to be the devils advocate on this one, pretty difficult to do I think, but maybe I am wrong?
On a different note i want to commend Eric Paulson for this last Saturday at Reddy, he picked up two 30 gallon garbage bags of trash before we even got there, right on Eric, lets see if more of us can do that when we go up north.
Another note: Does anyone know of any other place on Milly other than Reddy that has Beach sand other than Carlsona? Reddy turned into a danger zone this last weekend, the amount of swimmers and kiters was not a cool scene, I packed up and went to Malmo and a couple more people later came and were mentioning kiters dodging in between swimmers and so on, I don't know if it was true but if it was it's only a matter of time before an accident happens and weare finally banned from a place. That's my 2 cents if it's even worth that.
I really only have one concern with lets call it a certification to be able to ride in certain area's, I think it would take quite a bit of pull to actually not allow someone to use a public area, you would have to have the full clout ofthe DNR and Sherrif behind you and supporting you 100%. The reason I say this is you know how people are, you step up and tell them they cannot launch here because they are not certified with whatever certification you say is required and more than likely it's going to be a nasty word and then they go out anyway, to try and regulate who can use a public area without getting sued or in a fist fight might be a challenge? I don't mean to be negative but I have to be the devils advocate on this one, pretty difficult to do I think, but maybe I am wrong?
On a different note i want to commend Eric Paulson for this last Saturday at Reddy, he picked up two 30 gallon garbage bags of trash before we even got there, right on Eric, lets see if more of us can do that when we go up north.
Another note: Does anyone know of any other place on Milly other than Reddy that has Beach sand other than Carlsona? Reddy turned into a danger zone this last weekend, the amount of swimmers and kiters was not a cool scene, I packed up and went to Malmo and a couple more people later came and were mentioning kiters dodging in between swimmers and so on, I don't know if it was true but if it was it's only a matter of time before an accident happens and weare finally banned from a place. That's my 2 cents if it's even worth that.
I have paid the dues for Fleet 8 at least once in the past. I think it's a great organization and I have enjoyed meeting the Fleet 8 sailors at a couple of races in past years I have attended as mainly a spectator.
For me I have no desire to race, and I perceive (maybe not correctly) Fleet 8's main focus as racing.
I know this at least somewhat unfair because you see Mike Fox, Pat Fleming and other Fleet 8ers helping out a lot with other events that don't include racing (Kitefreeze comes to mind).
Anyway, maybe what's needed is just a better understanding of what Fleet 8 can do with help of the membership. Would it possible to promote a "free ride" kite or windsurf event where there is no race or the race is optional?
I guess what I think would be nice is if some loosely structured events could be put together during the season where you know you can bring the family along and at least a few other people will be there so kids and spouses are not completely alone on the beach (like the Gathering). Maybe a BBQ or something would be the only official event thing and everything else is up to the individuals.
For me I have no desire to race, and I perceive (maybe not correctly) Fleet 8's main focus as racing.
I know this at least somewhat unfair because you see Mike Fox, Pat Fleming and other Fleet 8ers helping out a lot with other events that don't include racing (Kitefreeze comes to mind).
Anyway, maybe what's needed is just a better understanding of what Fleet 8 can do with help of the membership. Would it possible to promote a "free ride" kite or windsurf event where there is no race or the race is optional?
I guess what I think would be nice is if some loosely structured events could be put together during the season where you know you can bring the family along and at least a few other people will be there so kids and spouses are not completely alone on the beach (like the Gathering). Maybe a BBQ or something would be the only official event thing and everything else is up to the individuals.
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steveb
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- Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
What I'm really looking for is ideas from people what they would like to do.
I talked to Cabrinha today and they would be willing to send team riders here to run clinics, one of their riders may by coincidence be here next weekend and if there's wind I may be posting a short notice ride with the pro type of thing...get your tips here etc.
Slingshot has sent guys and girls here in the past so I'm sure Tighe could get really good pro's here to help us learn too.
Mn and Wi is probably the biggest winter market in the country, Neil pryde owns Cabrinha, owns flow, who make bindings and snowboards. Through that link Cabrinha is coming out with a kite snowboard for this winter, I know SS has had one in the works. These are things that if we had an organisation we can leverage our winter kiters to get a jump on demoing new products, sponsorship for our events etc.
I personally don't want or have any interest in certification programs,I think that would be the worst thing we could do. We have responsible experienced riders ,if you see someone committing a no no educate them, you don't have to be dictatorial or aggressive just help out, most beginners I've met are dying for information.But that is my personal opinion which is not relevant to the post.
Mike Fox would like to expand fleet 8 to support kiting, but Mike has asked Tighe, myself and others "How do we do it" I started this post because I don't know what Lakawa people want, gatherings, competition, races, education or nothing at all.
Personally I loved the Kitefreeze, The Winter Crossing, the Gathering etc. I would like a mix of summer and winter get togethers with a little occasional competition. I would really love "How to " education either from our good guys here of from pro's that can instruct, I think locally we have a lot of people who can teach jumping or early tricks and planing gybes, I'm not only talking about kiting here but windsurfing and fleet 8 in general.
The organisation and what we do, the problems we face, insurance, people etc are all things that can be solved when we know what you guys want to do, if anything?.
So what the organisation is called , how much it costs etc at this point is not really relevant. What is rellevant is what do you guys and gals want for fun with windsurfing and kiting by way of organized events in the future, give us some ideas, let us know if you're interested or should we just leave it at a status quo with the windsurfing Mille Lacs crossing and maybe a winter kite one.
Feedback please!.
I talked to Cabrinha today and they would be willing to send team riders here to run clinics, one of their riders may by coincidence be here next weekend and if there's wind I may be posting a short notice ride with the pro type of thing...get your tips here etc.
Slingshot has sent guys and girls here in the past so I'm sure Tighe could get really good pro's here to help us learn too.
Mn and Wi is probably the biggest winter market in the country, Neil pryde owns Cabrinha, owns flow, who make bindings and snowboards. Through that link Cabrinha is coming out with a kite snowboard for this winter, I know SS has had one in the works. These are things that if we had an organisation we can leverage our winter kiters to get a jump on demoing new products, sponsorship for our events etc.
I personally don't want or have any interest in certification programs,I think that would be the worst thing we could do. We have responsible experienced riders ,if you see someone committing a no no educate them, you don't have to be dictatorial or aggressive just help out, most beginners I've met are dying for information.But that is my personal opinion which is not relevant to the post.
Mike Fox would like to expand fleet 8 to support kiting, but Mike has asked Tighe, myself and others "How do we do it" I started this post because I don't know what Lakawa people want, gatherings, competition, races, education or nothing at all.
Personally I loved the Kitefreeze, The Winter Crossing, the Gathering etc. I would like a mix of summer and winter get togethers with a little occasional competition. I would really love "How to " education either from our good guys here of from pro's that can instruct, I think locally we have a lot of people who can teach jumping or early tricks and planing gybes, I'm not only talking about kiting here but windsurfing and fleet 8 in general.
The organisation and what we do, the problems we face, insurance, people etc are all things that can be solved when we know what you guys want to do, if anything?.
So what the organisation is called , how much it costs etc at this point is not really relevant. What is rellevant is what do you guys and gals want for fun with windsurfing and kiting by way of organized events in the future, give us some ideas, let us know if you're interested or should we just leave it at a status quo with the windsurfing Mille Lacs crossing and maybe a winter kite one.
Feedback please!.
I can read 'feedback' in the previous posts Steve...
- people want 'events' whether for competition or not
- contributing $$ to an organization is cool with people
- insurance is a big issue. I think better handled by an established organization (Fleet8) rather than a new one.
- we all want to be as 'one', sharing the stoke, the wind, the camaraderie...
Woody
- people want 'events' whether for competition or not
- contributing $$ to an organization is cool with people
- insurance is a big issue. I think better handled by an established organization (Fleet8) rather than a new one.
- we all want to be as 'one', sharing the stoke, the wind, the camaraderie...
Woody
Having hung around the fringes of the local windsurf community here for 5 years or so (not that long compared to many) I would guess there are going to be MANY different ideas about what types of events would be the ticket.
For example, a windsurf race like the Waconia Wind & Wave is scheduled for late August... does this hold interest far beyond the current Fleet 8 members? I really don't know.
A kite loop clinic would probably draw quite a different crowd.
However, I think there could still be an advantage to all of these diverse individuals belonging to a common club like Fleet 8. I think over time people with similar interests within the larger club would find each other and you would have groups within the club that could drive their own events.
What might be starting point is getting more info on Fleet 8's goals on the web including a current membership list. It might be something like LAKAWA's Faces section with basic info about location, preferred lakes, skill level, goals, etc. That could facilitate intelligent discussion amongst those with similar goals and could spur the creation of more events in the future.
For example, a windsurf race like the Waconia Wind & Wave is scheduled for late August... does this hold interest far beyond the current Fleet 8 members? I really don't know.
A kite loop clinic would probably draw quite a different crowd.
However, I think there could still be an advantage to all of these diverse individuals belonging to a common club like Fleet 8. I think over time people with similar interests within the larger club would find each other and you would have groups within the club that could drive their own events.
What might be starting point is getting more info on Fleet 8's goals on the web including a current membership list. It might be something like LAKAWA's Faces section with basic info about location, preferred lakes, skill level, goals, etc. That could facilitate intelligent discussion amongst those with similar goals and could spur the creation of more events in the future.
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steveb
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Chanrider..it's nice that you're responding. But it's not fleet 8's goals, fleet 8 is just an organisation, it doesn't kite it doesn't windsurf. Fleet 8 wants to know what YOU want in the upcoming year or years.
When there is an understanding what people are interested in ,if enough people share the interest it fleet 8 will try to organize something, the question is what?.
When there is an understanding what people are interested in ,if enough people share the interest it fleet 8 will try to organize something, the question is what?.
I'd like to see more kite events, winter and summer. I think that windurfing has a great calendar and the kiting calendar is ready to bloom. Clinics, events, new product launches, new video launch...etc to keep local people plugged in would be great! I wouldn't mind contributing to an organization that would help with those events.
Denis
Denis
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SCOTT RIDOUT
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 12:45 pm
- Location: CHAMPLIN, MINNESOTA
Steve:
I realize Fleet 8 doesn't kite or windsurf, but I am assuming maybe some of the members do. And if Fleet 8 has no goals, again maybe the members might. That's why I was suggesting a membership list might be helpful to determine a starting point for what events might hold interest.
For example, I sailed as Crew with Wayzata Yacht Club for a summer and everyone gets a list of all the members and what boat classes they are in. That way you can seek out other people who are in your same boat class and partner up, or alternatively you can seek out people in other boat classes if you are interested in learning more about that particular type of boat.
Maybe something like this exists for Fleet 8, I just haven't seen it. I would say if we want to propose Fleet 8 as a common organization it would help to reference a place where we can get this type of information.
I realize Fleet 8 doesn't kite or windsurf, but I am assuming maybe some of the members do. And if Fleet 8 has no goals, again maybe the members might. That's why I was suggesting a membership list might be helpful to determine a starting point for what events might hold interest.
For example, I sailed as Crew with Wayzata Yacht Club for a summer and everyone gets a list of all the members and what boat classes they are in. That way you can seek out other people who are in your same boat class and partner up, or alternatively you can seek out people in other boat classes if you are interested in learning more about that particular type of boat.
Maybe something like this exists for Fleet 8, I just haven't seen it. I would say if we want to propose Fleet 8 as a common organization it would help to reference a place where we can get this type of information.
I like Woody's response...brief and to the point.
Here's mine:
I like gatherings
I like riding more than I like clinics
If someone has something I can learn when it isn't blowing I'll listen
I fear the first major accident locally
I am concerned about access issues
I am concerned about the congestion on the lakes and the less experienced.
I don't think we need certifications here locally yet.
Sponsorship is a marketing channel for most manufacturers, myself included. If we can self fund our activities I think it will give us more freedom.
my 2 cents.
Here's mine:
I like gatherings
I like riding more than I like clinics
If someone has something I can learn when it isn't blowing I'll listen
I fear the first major accident locally
I am concerned about access issues
I am concerned about the congestion on the lakes and the less experienced.
I don't think we need certifications here locally yet.
Sponsorship is a marketing channel for most manufacturers, myself included. If we can self fund our activities I think it will give us more freedom.
my 2 cents.
Tighe
Chime In!
I like loosey goosey non-organized non-events. I think its kool when for whatever reason people show up the same place & time and things flow from there. On the other hand, I think that it is tempting fate to organize an event without taking insurance liability into consideration. I did enjoy the GATHERING and getting together on an assigned date. I think that for me personally it had alot more relaxed "vibe" that I would attribute to the fact that there was no competition involved. But I know that lot of you like the thrill of the race and seeing how you "stack-up" against others. So I'd like a mixture of a "free-ride" day or days, and another day of competition. One thing I did not like about Worthington,
for example, is that you pay an entrance fee, but if you're not racing you're left out. I do think it would be wise for everyone to contrbute to an insurance/membership pool, so we know we're covered no matter what events we choose. Anyway, I hope we can get something worked out!!
for example, is that you pay an entrance fee, but if you're not racing you're left out. I do think it would be wise for everyone to contrbute to an insurance/membership pool, so we know we're covered no matter what events we choose. Anyway, I hope we can get something worked out!!