cold water riding gear

[krazykatie]

This past spring, i made a stop by Wildwood to watch some die hards kite shortly after the thaw. As i watched Dave and a few others run to a cooler of hot water to soak their feet after a session, I thought to myself..."I would never be so crazy to kite in these type of conditions." Well, my attitude has changed since then. I need to kite; i need to kite all year round! Today, i had my first session out in frigid waters of MN which i was not prepared for. So, I'm looking to purchase a hat, gloves and booties of some sort. I would really appreciate some feedback on what works to keep you toasty during this time of year. I'm still hoping for my first session out on Superior before Padre!! Terry gave me some good advice today.... He told me that he wears his smart wool under his booties. Thanks Terry; i'll have to remember that!

[Tighe]

Hood. Absolutely necessary. You loose a lot of heat through your head. If you wear a helmet bring it when you try it on. There are cap styles and bonnet styles. The latter are warmer but the sounds get a bit muffled with flaps over your ears. I just got a hybrid from Midwest Mountaineering that drops down over the ears but has small holes to eliminate the vacuum that can be created in the closed cavity.

Glove/Mitts. I prefer gloves for kiteboarding but Mitts are warmer. If your fingers freeze on your first session, surprisingly once warmed back up they stay warmer. You want gloves that aren't too tight, bulky, or stiff. Precurved is a must otherwise you'll be working your forarms to keep your grip. Skinned Neoprene is a must. Anything with nylon on the outside, doesn't cut the wind, and actually cools your fingers when the water evaporates as it drys.

Booties.
Similar to gloves. The downside of the thin, flexible type is that they don't last that long. The souled versions last longer but give you less of a feel of the board. You want them snug or with a separate big toe so you don't slide around in there. Some have a lower strap which helps. The warmest option is to take wool socks (wool is warm even when wet) cover with bread bags, then insert into booties. You essentially have two thermal layers then. Both which provide more warmth when wet. Again skinned neoprene is the best. Another side benefit of the socks is that they make sliding through the drysuit seals easier.

The warm bucket of water on shore is a good idea. It warms your hands after that first numbing and usually carries you through your next session. A half an asprin is also not a bad idea to thin your blood and keep circulation up. When it gets really cold, putting vaseline on your face helps reduce the wind chill. Also when riding in the cold stay loose, carve a bit more, swing an arm, etc. Riding rigid with the death grip on the bar, will reduce your circulation.

Midwest Mountaineering has been outfitting the most hardcore kayakers for over 30 years. They are on the ice thaws while we're still snowkiting. Stop down and rack their brains about how to enjoy the cold.

[Dave Z]

Here are some of the best items IMO:

Mysterioso Fleece top - can be worn under a wetsuit or drysuit for added insulation - REI has them: http://www.mysterioso.com/

A one piece hood/vest combo - keeps you from getting the cold water flush on the back of your neck - Promotion makes a nice one for women - http://www.wetsuit.com/store/detail.cfm?product_id=585

Da Kine mitts: warm enough for me, thin palms, best feel for a mitt and they've worked great:

http://www.isthmussailboards.com/prodin ... DK4400-600

[Debbie]

I think I have perfected the ghetto drysuit:

Booties - $25.00 on sale, gloves - 25.00, wetsuit and helmet (already had), skull cap - 12.00, drysuit top on clearance - 85.00, rain pant and neoprene top (already had also)...........total cost - $147.00........staying warm while kiting - priceless.

[steveb]

It's all right for you boasting about the deals you've found Deb....but most of us can't shop in the kiddie department

[TV]

On the coldest days, I like to wear two layers of Polypropylene and a fleece under a Bare drysuit. I usually pack three sets, and swap out the damp layers with dry.

When I'm out all day in cold weather, I'll stop midway to put on dry underlayers, eat lunch, and have a quick siesta. I'll be totally recharged for the rest of the day.

This may ruffle a few feathers, but do not get a baggy suit! They may keep you dry, but have no thermal benefit. I had a baggy, and recall spending several minutes in the water with damp clothing where I could feel the sting of the cold water and the warmth rapidly sucked from by body. After several all day sails where the wind, water and air were all in the 30's, I highly recommend the Bare.

Maybe wear two hats as well.

Tim

[RobH]

Check out the scuba shops for gloves, I picked up a pair of dry gloves that have some insulation but not so much that it limits the movement. They also have some nice hoods, if its good enough for the ice divers, it will keep us warm

[tailwindsaloft]

I just bought a 4:3 wetsuit that is incredibly warm except for the water that leaks through the back zipper. does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep the water from leaking through the zipper? Also I read about folks putting warming pads on their kidneys to stay out longer. Anyone else tried anything like this? thanks in advance.

[Stroh]

This may ruffle a few feathers, but do not get a baggy suit! They may keep you dry, but have no thermal benefit. I had a baggy, and recall spending several minutes in the water with damp clothing where I could feel the sting of the cold water and the warmth rapidly sucked from by body. After several all day sails where the wind, water and air were all in the 30's, I highly recommend the Bare.

You ruffled my feathers.... if that is how you feel why you aren’t wearing a full neoprene dry (like tighe's)

I highly recommend baggy dry's.

It is very important that you where the right clothing under any dry as some fabrics maintain insulating properties when wet better than others. When cotton gets wet it will lose almost 100% of its insulating proprieties so I say it’s a bad Idea to where cotton (under most circumstances). Wool and smartwool I think are the best they retain something like 95% when wet. Fleece is another good one, I use fleece because it keeps me warm even when it's soaking wet and it is allot more comfy than wool and neoprene. I bought some good hiking fleece from Rei that has "wicking technology" that essentially takes water away from my body and leaves it by my ankles.

Unless I have booties gloves and a hood on, I get soaked under my dry but I don’t get cold.

Terry and I rode two days on Waconia just days after the ice broke air temp was around 25 with wind in the low 20s both days. We were both wearing Ocean Rodeo baggy suits, and sweating the whole time. Every bit of spray that would hit us would freeze so we were completely covered with ice the only reason we came off the water was because you lose the ability to move your bar.
I was wearing 1 thin layer and 1 thick layer of fleece pants. One fleece shirt and a wool sweater plus all the extremities covered.

The biggest reason I recommend baggy suits is VERSITILITY. I where my dry in the middle of the summer, those days when I'm just slightly chilly on the water because of air temp combined with being wet. I wear a thin layer of cotton under my dry, If I start to get warm I just let a little water into my suit to kill the insulation.

You can use a baggy dry suit and be comfortable in a wider variety of weather conditions than any other suit, just by changing the thickness and type of insulation under a baggy suit.
Another great reason to go baggy in Baggy = flexibility

Jon

[steveb]

other than the flexibilty of layering under a baggy, you get a goretex one and you don't get the wet clammy sweat build up inside the suit,. Saturday I was dry as can be after riding all day, I was working on gybing a surfboard so I had a lot of falls, still no water or sweat build up inside the suit.
I've owned a bare suit, they're very good, but nowhere near as warm as a good baggy. They don't breath so you get sweat buildup, they also let some water in through the legs, which with a hard blown landing from a jump can get all they way to your torso.For windsurfers they do have the benefit of being faster though the water when swimming ( chasing your board after a bad fall ) a baggy makes it very hard to swim fast because the suit wrinkles in the water which creates drag. But that's the only benefit I can think of having owned both types of suits.
It's all taste and most suits these days are very good.
My favourite feature for any suit is a zip on the front. Those back zips are a pest.But some of you are remarkably flexible and seem to be able to open and close them on your own. In my old age I'm so creaky I need help getting my fly, let alone a zip across my back.

[Tim S.]

This seems like a good time to ask as I've been thinking of whether to buy a dry suit or thick wet suit. Right now I ride in a 5 mil 7 year old diving wet suit, a little constricting.

I was thinking of buying a baggy suit, but am worried about getting a tear in the suit, and filling up with 32 degree water.
Also with the full baggies, with the entire foot as part of the suit, what type of booties to people cover the plastic foot box.

The other suit I was considering was a hybrid, dry neoprene on the bottom, with a baggy top. These don't look like they have a built in foot box, what do people wear keep their feet warm with these. Any expierence with these suits.

Thanks

[Tighe]

all good questions Tim

First of all I wouldn't use the wetsuit/drysuit you currently use as a comparison to suits designed for wind sports. I ride in a 5/4 semi dry, designed for wind sports (i.e. slickskin) and am very toasty. I don't plan to ride in weather colder than 40 degrees anymore.

The Bare referenced above is a hybrid. Probably the best on the market. Many people have them locally and love them. Read my description above about booties.

Full baggies. There are a lot of options here. As Steve points out the biggest difference you're going to find is the amount of Breathability. Some have breathable panels others are 100% breathable fabric. Typically you pay a lot more for the 100% Breathable ones but Midwest Mountaineering has some 100% breathable ones for far less than I had previously expected. The attached booties are a personal preference. They go on much easier, because there are no leg gaskets. They are a bit dryer, but they are fragile, so you'll want to wear a bootie over them to pretect them. You also loose a bit of versatility because you'll have to wear booties even when the water is a warm enough to go without, (unless you have another warm wetsuit). Another great option available on these suits is a Pee Zip. Short dry zip down low. It costs a bit more but it's a nice option.
As Stroh points out, to get the most out of a baggie suit, invest in some good layering clothes for underneath. A multi layer system will allow you to dial in the insulation for the day. We're not talking t shirts and sweats here. Cotton is not your friend in the cold. Stop in to any quality outdoor store and they will give you the scoop on undergarments. Midwest Mountaineering outfits kayakers, mountain climbers, winter campers, x country skiers, so they tend to know their stuff. Gear West on the west side are pretty good as well. I've had mixed reactions to the knowledge at REI. Depends on who you get as a sales person.

Good luck.

[seamonkey]

Some say I'm old-fashioned, but I prefer extra long wool socks with well-oiled leather leder hosen.

[krazykatie]

thanks for all the advice Keep it coming! Hopefully, i can find the time to check out Midwest sometime this week.

[Michelle]

I rode early in the spring in a 7mm wet/dry suit made by Subo Gear.
They are not that expensive and you can find them on ebay under the seller name Innovative supports.
They have this cool titanium layer on the inside which reflects heat back onto your skin and I was toasty in mine.
They are pretty thick, so a little restrictive and I would suggest buying one size bigger than you wear otherwise it is a nightmare to get into!
They cost $125 brand new and I just wore my 4mm wetsuit booties and gloves with it.

[Browbry]

I have a BARE & its getting little holes up on the rubberneck. Some people call me rubberneck even when I don't have this costume on. A rumor I heard recently is BARE stopped production of their well-liked suit. I really like mine & continue to patch it. Did they stop making them? Now what? What would be a good next? Is the Ocean Rodeo Over-Rated? I've heard good things....

[steveb]

Midwest Mtn bargain area has a repair dept, I'd bet they have a gasket that would fit.

[mjturnqu2]

interesting post with a lot of good advice. I bought a 5/3 Mystic Venom Steamer wetsuit last spring and I have to say it works great. I have the booties, hat, and gloves too. Flexibility is also great on it.

I ride on the south coast of finland, mostly near helsinki, where you need a wetsuit all summer long. About 75% of the riders here use the same Venom suit as me from spring to fall. Yes we look like a bunch of cloned kiters. Over half of the riders, including myself are still using it. If the water is 55 I would be surprised.

One point that was made by other though is dressing for the swim. Luckiliy here you are always close to some shoreline because there are islands everywhere so this is a factor.

Hey to fellow Mn riders and bro! I may be riding on Mn waters next year again ... but lets see what happens. Mille Lacs was always great.

If you are ever in Finland on business or pleasure and want to ride in some beautiful locations just let me know. As the wind maps show, and from what I have luckily experienced in the last 7 months ... the wind always blows here. Also like I said there are lots of islands ... so there is always flat water and high wind somewhere.

Cheers,
Matthew

[ice_kmauve]

Debbie-- I have one addition to your "Ghetto Dry Suit" concept. Mills Fleet farms sells 3mm neoprene gloves designed for fishing. $8.
But be aware, to shop there you have to prove you're going to vote for John Mccain.

[ice_kmauve]

Debbie-- I have one addition to your "Ghetto Dry Suit" concept. Mills Fleet farms sells 3mm neoprene gloves designed for fishing. $8.
But be aware, to shop there you have to prove you're going to vote for John Mccain.

btw seamonkey: "leder hosen" means "leather pants" in Deutsch. I prefer to use menthol rendered bear grease with a finishing layer of light corn husker's lotion on mine.