Mille Crossing questions.

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:55 pm

We're trying to sort out the format for the crossing classes and would appreciate some feedback.
The first plan is to have the standard Masochist class, a race as long as we can make it to make the thighs scream and continue to allow Fleet 8 to promote the race as Minnesottas ultimate challenge.
We know a lot of people have started kiting this year, so is there interest in a second course which would still be a challenge, but shorter.We are also thinking on having the womens and juniors do the shorter course too.
I should emphasise that if some women want to do the longer race there is no reason you could not and should not suffer with everyone else who chooses the longer race.
So could you give us a little feedback, we really would like to provide a challenge and some competition for people who have not done this kind of thing before.
For some of the women who have started to kite this winter, the list is long,Katie, Caroline, Ashley, Danielle and more, what would you like and what kind of event would you be interested in doing.
Same for the guys that are new this winter, please give us some feedback.

JRN · Post by **JRN** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:11 am

Bob was not my uncle, try Larry, Glen, or Harry. Were you anticipating a TRUE crossing, as in all the way across? Or, maybe an out & back as an alternative to the laps we have seen at the last two "crossings?" I have heard a lot of purists comment that it should not be called a "CROSSING"
if it really isn't one. I have no preference one way or the other, but would prefer riding behind the "GALS" regardless. Instead of a seperate
course, why not fewer laps, or letting the "Pink Vest" riders have a head start, as was done in the windsurf crossings? How about a "TAG-TEAM"
where the rookies alternate laps? Just thought I'd throw in some other ideas for fodder, & add to the confusion. How is Cedar Lake looking, UNCLE BOB?

Nancy · Post by **Nancy** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:36 am

I have to admit, I wouldn't mind if the women's course was a bit shorter than the brutal full length. Laps sounds good because the support job would be easier and hopefully it would be less likely to get lost out there!

JRN- Cedar has a couple of new inches of beautiful snow, hopefully it won't all blow off today!

I actually heard the phrase "Bob's Your Uncle" in a movie recently...I think it's called The Fastest Indian or something like that with Anthony Hopkins. Steve and I both really liked it so catch it if you can. Just for fun (OK I'm at work!) I googled "BYU". So for the curious: back in 1877 British Prime Minister Robert Cecil appointed his nephew as Minister for Ireland. Apparently the press had a field day when he referred to the Prime Minister as "Uncle Bob"!! That's how "BYU" became a popular phrase to describe any positive situation.

Nearly done here at work, so I guess I'm off for home and BYU!

JanMarie · Post by **JanMarie** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:00 pm

Hey, SteveB, as a new winter rider I have a suggestion for a class you can add. .... The kind where there is a teacher and a student. (a brave teacher).
Janarie

Terry Dunklee · Post by **Terry Dunklee** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:30 pm

Hi Nancy --- "The World's Fastest Indian" -- my kind of great movie. Full nice people with positive attitudes willing to help out in a pinch. Like the kiting community.

Steve -- short courses for old farts with bad knees would also be nice.

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:47 pm

Know all about "Bob's your uncle" being 50% 'Limey' myself!

but back to the thread...

Woodette will try for some type of 'crossing' this year. Laps would work best for her I'm sure. Doing laps makes it seem you're never too far away from another kiter. A bit of a safety net I guess you could say.

Here's WOODETTE in action from the other day

Woody

champlin · Post by **champlin** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:53 am

Unfortunately Caroline and I will be just getting back that Saturday from Mexico so we will more than likely miss the crossing this year, it's the one big event that I really like!

krazykatie · Post by **krazykatie** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:56 am

As much as i would like to do the real deal, i won't complain if a shorter course is offered. It would be nice to have some legs left after the race to just ride. Realistically, i probably wouldn't finish anyway. When i ride switch i last about 1-2 miles before i cant take it anymore plus i'm still struggling with edging on my board. But i'm up for whatever, no need to put together a shorter course if there aren't many women planning on racing.

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:22 pm

Janarie. I was trying to think how a teacher and newbie could ride together and communicate.
Do you have one of those little motorola or similar walkie talkies, I have one which can clip onto a strap or belt etc, with 2 of those things it would be possible for the helper to pass on instructions. Just a thought.

Tighe · Post by **Tighe** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:08 pm

I have a set of Walkie talkie helmets we use in our instruction. Not sure though if the race is the place to do instruction. Seems like it would make much better sense to spend some time before the race working on stance, kite placement, etc to be able to hold various lines into the wind. Then you'ld be good to go with the group when the race began. There is so much room up there that it seems it would be quite easy to work with a student for plenty of long tacks prior to the race when 50+ kites are zooming about.

I'm sure there will be quite a few instruction options up there that weekend.

Tighe · Post by **Tighe** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:26 pm

As far as the course is concerned. I personally favor the across-the-whole frickin-lake course. I know the distance is the same but there is something so much more gratifying about crossing the big mother. If the support staff is set up along the course say every 4 miles why couldn't each of these also be turn around options? There would be quite a few options for riders to turn around. If you want to turn around you just go close to the support staff on the sled, call out your number and head back. I spose a rider could even do a few short loops if they were uncertain of their endurance.

While the race has always been a speed challenge, I'd like to see it also be a true endurance test. We've never had anyone not complete the course. Most of the time we have plenty of energy to freeride after the race. I think we should increase the total distance and provide options to turn around. Call me a masachist but I not only want to hurt, I want to find my limit. Look at the birkie or the marathon... we don't even compare. I think as long as there is options for shortening your course, we should go for it. Another option would be to have a best average speed for whatever course you rode. This way someone could do a very fast short course and do well. I spose if we did that we could do another award based on total distance times the average miles per hour. I think there could be a few different ways to look at it to award endurance and speed separately.

Mike's gonna kill me.

Barry P · Post by **Barry P** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:31 pm

I'm with you Tighe.

It not just about finding out who's fastest on some course laid out on Mille Lacs. There is real satisfaction in doing the whole blessed lake shore to shore. In windsurfing 'crossings' that were just out & back (usually for good reason) instead of a 'real' crossing... it just doesn't quite satisfy what you really came for. I come for the lake. I want it all. It tugs at the soul.

I like the turn back options, even without providing 'official' turn back points. It's a LONG haul ther and back again. I'm not terribly worried about some knucklehead turning back and 'sneaking' in to 1st place by cutting it short. It could happen, but too bad for them. It would be so hollow. On fast snow, no problem doing the whole distance. In deep or sticky stuff, rough ice, or dying winds... I may have to turn back.

Another thought to consider (sorry Mike)... the course. Mike does a great job setting up a good tack, but it's not always really as optimal as the sailors hope for. Not optimal is a good additional challenge, perhaps. Another way to run the course is to let the lead kiter set the tack after the upwind mark. I think this is more feasible in winter than summer. Granted it will likely not be a dead-on tack to, say Malmo, but it will intersect the shoreline and the lead kiter can feel the wind and which degree will give the sweetest ride. So instead the snowmobile 'pack' would follow lead kiter (or try to read what the lead kiter is reading from the wind) and drop markers on the way. Drawbacks: 1) it make Mike's life harder. 2) if winds are clocking, no optimal tack exists. 3) We're all going to have to shift tacks along the way anyhow or die from thigh meltdown... so what really is the course? However, the lead likely is bionic anyhow so this will not apply.

Blah Blah Blah.

Tighe · Post by **Tighe** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:36 pm

What you describe Barry is what happened in Crossing # 2. After the upwind mark we all shot down the western shore after Joe Levins on a his super high aspect Octane. Most of us did dozens of tacks to make his turn around mark. It didn't help that we had ice freezing on our leading edge (or in our foils). That was probably one of the most grueling experiences. One to remember though.

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:59 pm

The other thing that happened that year is there was a big header, so anyone downwind of Joey was punished severely, which is why so many of us had to tack upto to where Joey was, the wind shifted after he turned.
This is not really a good scenario for fair racing. It offers no opportunity to select the shifts for the fastest course to the turninig mark.
Though in truth the fog and ice of that year really made the " where the hell am I " more of a factor than the opitmum race tactics.

Stroh · Post by **Stroh** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:11 am

Ahh the 2nd crossing... brings back memories of vertigo. after the turn I was all alone in a white sphere trying to guess which direction to go.. made a guess that it was directly down wind (given all the tacking)... it was a good one, some people ended up in malmo.

I finaly picked up a gps that should help

bring on the white-out

If we have a nice windy and sunny day with straight south wind we can do the pure crossing.
but with that we have a max distence of 27 miles if we do the double outand back or triangle we can get 30-40miles, this also makes it easier for mike to keep track of us. and run pickup missions if the wind was to die.

Jon

Woodette · Post by **Woodette** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:15 am

Laps, Loops, all across the lake and back, bring it on! I am saving my energy for the dance floor of a smoke-free Blue Goose with Footloose (Jeff A.)

Woodette

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:07 pm

Ahhh, quit yer whining.
Most the smoke in that bar comes from the hot stuff like yourself Woodette.

Woodette · Post by **Woodette** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:02 pm

Always the English Gentleman! Steve, you are my new, best friend!

JanMarie · Post by **JanMarie** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:55 pm

Steve, the walkey-talkey thing is a great idea. I'll look around for some.
Tighe, I was not meaning to be in the race. It was a play on the word "class". Concrete sequencial?
Janarie

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:20 am

There are some radios that have a clip on one end, so you can clip them on a strap etc. See if you can find one of those.

LAKAWA

Mille Crossing questions.

Mille Crossing questions.

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