I am practically overwhelmed by the performance of the 10m Turbo Diesel after my first session on it this afternoon. I almost chose not to fly it because the wind was so light, but once this thing is in the air a person can’t help but be impressed by its power, speed and overall performance. The wind was in the 10-15mph range, but closer to 10mph most of the time. The highest reading at the airport today was 16mph. I would have never thought I would be lit up on a 10m inflatable, but I was. Not only that, but I was floating some jumps in the 10ft. range in the puffs. Wow! A person could buy only one of these kites and be set for the whole winter—hard to believe, but true. One kite and 2 boards would cover most conditions on the water. I am thinking of a mere 2 kite quiver of only TD’s, 10m and 16m. This is coming from a guy who usually has a garage full of kites.
What is most remarkable about this new style of kite is that is represents a jump ahead in safety, range, ease of use and performance over most C shaped kites. Even the most advanced riders benefit from range and jumping performance of the bows.
I think what I say above is an objective report, but I should mention that I recently signed on with Midwest Mountaineering to help give their shop exposure to the local community. I get a discounted price on Slingshot kites, but I still had to spend a big chunk of my own money to acquire them. Even though SS makes a particularly nice package, I think what I say here applies to most of the bow style kites. Terry Dunklee took some rides today on the 10 TD, and seemed to be just about as impressed.
Turbo Diesel 10m Rocks!
Moderator: MK
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steveb
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Terry Dunklee
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Yes Mike, I was very impressed with the TD. It was amazing to see you jumping on a 10M TD at the same time I'm very comfortable on the 12M frenzy. The kite was fast in the sky, rock solid stable at speed and easily went upwind with less bar pessure than my foil. In addition it came inflated with lines attached and adjusted. What a deal.
Thanks Mike
Terry
Thanks Mike
Terry
Hey Mike.
We were having some issues with a 10m TD on Sunday. It inverted a lot. We thought that the front lines were pulled in too far, or there was too much throw on the bar, causing the angle of attack to go negative and invert the kite. But at the same time, the kite was very responsive, which meant adequate tension on the back lines. How did you set up your TD?
Denis
We were having some issues with a 10m TD on Sunday. It inverted a lot. We thought that the front lines were pulled in too far, or there was too much throw on the bar, causing the angle of attack to go negative and invert the kite. But at the same time, the kite was very responsive, which meant adequate tension on the back lines. How did you set up your TD?
Denis
I had no trouble at all, right out of the bag. I pumped it up to 7psi., and attached the rear lines one knot in from the fronts for a little extra grunt. I set the stopper about arm's length away, and I was good to go. Later we moved the rear lines in one more knot, but that seemed to make relaunching a bit tougher.
When was the kite inverting? When you dropped it from the sky?
When was the kite inverting? When you dropped it from the sky?
Last edited by Mike W on Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For those interested, I've got a 16m TD coming in... I'm still on injured-reserve, so it will be available for demo purposes. Technically, it should be a light-wind machine - I'll be most curious to see how much wind it can handle.
Everyone's been raving about the 12m and the 10m sounds pretty solid. I'm hoping the 16m performs equally as well.
Everyone's been raving about the 12m and the 10m sounds pretty solid. I'm hoping the 16m performs equally as well.
Denis, in light wind I have no pull at all on the sheeting line. The stopper is set about 1 ft. from the bar. I would think that if these kites get completely depowered, they might invert, depending on how they fall from the sky. This is true to some extent of C kites as well, but there isn't a bridle to get tangled.
My strategy to avoid possible inversion is to just keep the kite powered enough to fly. So far, that has not been difficult at all, even in 10mph or less. If I safety the kite by sheeting out the bar completely or by using the safety system, I expect to be in a dangerous situation. In that case, whether the kite inverts or not does not matter much. When I finish a session, I land the kite on the side of the window and grab the upwind power line to kill it. So far this works great.
I would think that someone who is unfamiliar with these kites or other inflatables would be most likely to invert them. Once you get the hang of how they fly, it should not be much trouble at all to avoid inversion.
My strategy to avoid possible inversion is to just keep the kite powered enough to fly. So far, that has not been difficult at all, even in 10mph or less. If I safety the kite by sheeting out the bar completely or by using the safety system, I expect to be in a dangerous situation. In that case, whether the kite inverts or not does not matter much. When I finish a session, I land the kite on the side of the window and grab the upwind power line to kill it. So far this works great.
I would think that someone who is unfamiliar with these kites or other inflatables would be most likely to invert them. Once you get the hang of how they fly, it should not be much trouble at all to avoid inversion.
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steveb
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steveb
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We gotta "pump you up!".
I'm usually 8 to 10 psi struts 7 to 8 on the le. I vary it depending on temp, cold I pump higher, warm a little lower. I also go higher in winter as due stiff inflation valves most kites seem to bleed a little over time. Obviously I reduce it in hot weather as I don't want to blow things up as the air expands. It's pretty wild feeling the change in your LE when the temp climbs into the 90's. At SPI I've actually bled air from the kite as the day gets hotter. Probably paranoia on my part but there seems to even be a limit to baywatch firm.
I'm usually 8 to 10 psi struts 7 to 8 on the le. I vary it depending on temp, cold I pump higher, warm a little lower. I also go higher in winter as due stiff inflation valves most kites seem to bleed a little over time. Obviously I reduce it in hot weather as I don't want to blow things up as the air expands. It's pretty wild feeling the change in your LE when the temp climbs into the 90's. At SPI I've actually bled air from the kite as the day gets hotter. Probably paranoia on my part but there seems to even be a limit to baywatch firm.
Good info.
Yes pressure does seem to make a difference.
I have also found with all Slingshot bars that the bars are made somewhat universal, and are intended to work with most kites. On a C kite that means that the 3-4 inches of depower adjustment that most SS kites will tolerate, will vary from kite to kite on the more than 10 inches of total adjustment. I used one bar for most of my Fuels and just remembered where the range in the adjustment was for each. You could tweak your lines so that it was the same, I was just lazy. They probably all started the same I just stretched some lines more than others.
I would imagine the TD is very similar. That there is more adjustment or depowering than each kite is capable of.
I have found that I like to put the stopper ball (if not using it to ride powered up) just inside of the 100% depower point on the line. If the bar goes past 100% it does seem prone to inversions. It makes sense really, you've pulled the front lines in quite far at that point and like a sail released from the clew, it will flap from one side to another. So the key is to keep it from going past 100% depower...doesn't do you any good anyway.
Since the TD has like 6 feet of adjustment line (through the cleat above the chicken loop), the point on the chicken loop line where the kite goes beyond 100% will vary with the amount of adjustment strap pulled down. Overall I just try to keep the kite slightly powered at all times.
I have also found that another way to think about the adjustment strap, or depower line, is just as an arm position adjustor. For any given wind strength there is an ideal amount of depower that affords comfortable riding (on any kite). If you are riding and that ideal position has the bar too far out for you, just pull in the adjustment strap and you move the "ideal" location down on the chicken loop line so that the bar is at a more comfortable position.
So I guess my suggestion, which I've given Darlene as well is to find that spot on the throw of the bar, where the kite depowers 100% and set the stopper ball right there. If you change your adjustment strap, readjust your stopper ball. It should reduce the inversions
The cool thing is Darlene got back upwind her first day out on an inflatable. She had lessons with Todd and Nathan, and is already cruisin with the rest of us. Ride on Darlene.
Yes pressure does seem to make a difference.
I have also found with all Slingshot bars that the bars are made somewhat universal, and are intended to work with most kites. On a C kite that means that the 3-4 inches of depower adjustment that most SS kites will tolerate, will vary from kite to kite on the more than 10 inches of total adjustment. I used one bar for most of my Fuels and just remembered where the range in the adjustment was for each. You could tweak your lines so that it was the same, I was just lazy. They probably all started the same I just stretched some lines more than others.
I would imagine the TD is very similar. That there is more adjustment or depowering than each kite is capable of.
I have found that I like to put the stopper ball (if not using it to ride powered up) just inside of the 100% depower point on the line. If the bar goes past 100% it does seem prone to inversions. It makes sense really, you've pulled the front lines in quite far at that point and like a sail released from the clew, it will flap from one side to another. So the key is to keep it from going past 100% depower...doesn't do you any good anyway.
Since the TD has like 6 feet of adjustment line (through the cleat above the chicken loop), the point on the chicken loop line where the kite goes beyond 100% will vary with the amount of adjustment strap pulled down. Overall I just try to keep the kite slightly powered at all times.
I have also found that another way to think about the adjustment strap, or depower line, is just as an arm position adjustor. For any given wind strength there is an ideal amount of depower that affords comfortable riding (on any kite). If you are riding and that ideal position has the bar too far out for you, just pull in the adjustment strap and you move the "ideal" location down on the chicken loop line so that the bar is at a more comfortable position.
So I guess my suggestion, which I've given Darlene as well is to find that spot on the throw of the bar, where the kite depowers 100% and set the stopper ball right there. If you change your adjustment strap, readjust your stopper ball. It should reduce the inversions
The cool thing is Darlene got back upwind her first day out on an inflatable. She had lessons with Todd and Nathan, and is already cruisin with the rest of us. Ride on Darlene.
Last edited by Tighe on Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tighe
Denis,
Were you the ones at Sweede with the other red and orange TD? I had mine out as well, but it is a 12m. I had some inversion issues but I'm pretty sure it was due to rookie mistakes. I inflated to about 7 psi. Next time going for 8 or more. Next time I will introduce myself -- if I can stay up wind and near the crowd. You might have seen me on the south side of the lake, or walking back upwind! : )
Julia
Were you the ones at Sweede with the other red and orange TD? I had mine out as well, but it is a 12m. I had some inversion issues but I'm pretty sure it was due to rookie mistakes. I inflated to about 7 psi. Next time going for 8 or more. Next time I will introduce myself -- if I can stay up wind and near the crowd. You might have seen me on the south side of the lake, or walking back upwind! : )
Julia
Hey Julia.
That might have been Darlene on skis with that orange and Red TD. She was having some inversion problems, so I took the kite out, made some adjustments that made things a little better, but it still had some inversion problems. I didn't think about the air pressure.
I usually fly either a blue or red Wipika Indy (regular "C") kite, but I occasionally ride other kites to get to know them better. I was on a red Ozone Frenzy on Sunday.
Denis
That might have been Darlene on skis with that orange and Red TD. She was having some inversion problems, so I took the kite out, made some adjustments that made things a little better, but it still had some inversion problems. I didn't think about the air pressure.
I usually fly either a blue or red Wipika Indy (regular "C") kite, but I occasionally ride other kites to get to know them better. I was on a red Ozone Frenzy on Sunday.
Denis
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SCOTT RIDOUT
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I'm thinking of dropping the bucks on a 12m TD, the one I rode at the Kitejam that Tighe had almost seemed a little scary fast, but I think with some riding time behind me everything would be cool. Is everyone been that satisfied with the TD, I just want to get a few more opinions before I pull the trigger, no pun intended.
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steveb
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I wonder if we could arrange some kind of super bow demo, get all the bows together we can get our hands on, and get everyone out on them.
personally I want to try the TD, the halo and the shock wave to see how they all compare.
Just out of interest what bows do people have now, I have the xbow and switch blade, obviously there are TD's ,I think there is a couple of raptures about. Any body got anything else?
personally I want to try the TD, the halo and the shock wave to see how they all compare.
Just out of interest what bows do people have now, I have the xbow and switch blade, obviously there are TD's ,I think there is a couple of raptures about. Any body got anything else?
Scott R - TD 12 purchase ?
Hey Scott,
Im right there with you on the fence about ready to pull the trigger. Wondering where they can be found locally when the trigger finger has had enough ? Also interested in any reviews on the Ocean Rodeo "one " kites - anyone have exerience with there version of the bow ?
Sign me up for Steves demo of the bows - there is so much interest out there - it is sure to be a interesting summer on the lakes
Rob
Im right there with you on the fence about ready to pull the trigger. Wondering where they can be found locally when the trigger finger has had enough ? Also interested in any reviews on the Ocean Rodeo "one " kites - anyone have exerience with there version of the bow ?
Sign me up for Steves demo of the bows - there is so much interest out there - it is sure to be a interesting summer on the lakes
Rob
I would be willing to exchange some demo time on my 12m TD for some tips from the wiley veterans around here!
I got mine at Midwest Mountaineering. Larry at Scuba Center told me he can also get the TD's from Slingshot and would cut a couple hundred dollars off of Midwest's price.
Scott, if by fast you mean powerful, I concur. The 12 feels like way more than enough power for me (for a long time, I suspect). Good thing it depowers so easily and quickly.
Can't wait to get out again!
I got mine at Midwest Mountaineering. Larry at Scuba Center told me he can also get the TD's from Slingshot and would cut a couple hundred dollars off of Midwest's price.
Scott, if by fast you mean powerful, I concur. The 12 feels like way more than enough power for me (for a long time, I suspect). Good thing it depowers so easily and quickly.
Can't wait to get out again!