Blowfish

Tom L · Post by **Tom L** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:47 pm

Man that is one nasty looking problem for Best. And I almost bought one. The Hellfish had to be one of the most undertested & overhyped kites in the history of kiting. Best is going to have to try hard to get anyone to believe any claim they make about a product after this fiasco

This is a LE, which have been blowing up like popcorn.

SCOTT RIDOUT · Post by **SCOTT RIDOUT** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:05 am

Is this just one or has there been widespread failures, if it was just one, not a problem, if it's been happening to a majority of them then I would say yes it's a problem, lets not shoot down a good idea if it's only a few instances.

SCOTT RIDOUT · Post by **SCOTT RIDOUT** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:15 am

We have had a few Hellfish kites from the first production run blow out on the center of the leading edge. This is not a problem with all Hellfish, but limited to a few. The problem is an incorrect stitch position on the closing seam of the LE and it seems as if it was limited to one sewing operator in China on a few kites. The kite with this problem will basically blow out in an hour ag=fter initially pumping them up. If you are unfortunate enough to have received one of these kites, please know that we will replace it promptly or issue you a refund along with a $100 credit towards a future Best purchase. This small problem is limited to about 50 kites as far as we can tell. It is not a problem with the design or the Cuben Fiber material, just a stitching mistake where the operator actually missed half of the cuben fiber on the closing seam causing a severe weakness. If this same stitch mistake were to happen on a Dacron LE, the kite would explode as soon as it was pumped to 5psi.

We sincerely apologize for this inconvenience if you happen to have received one of these kites, but know full well, we will do whatever necessary to make you happy.

This issue has caused a small delay in future production, but we are now once again producing Hellfish as fast as we can.
_________________
Alex Shogren
bestkiteboarding.com

Tom L · Post by **Tom L** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:20 am

It's been estimated to have happened to 50 kites at least. Production is stopped, Best is eating their shorts. The fabric has a future. But, I don't think it's too cool too hype it to the moon, and throw it on the market after 2 months testing. Obviously something went terribly wrong.

Best is trying to lay the blame on one seamstress in China, but that doesn't explan the the delaminated Cuben which could be a bigger problem down the road.

They rushed it to market without enough testing, that's all there is to it. Live & Learn.

We have had a few Hellfish kites from the first production run blow out on the center of the leading edge. This is not a problem with all Hellfish, but limited to a few. The problem is an incorrect stitch position on the closing seam of the LE and it seems as if it was limited to one sewing operator in China on a few kites. The kite with this problem will basically blow out in an hour ag=fter initially pumping them up. If you are unfortunate enough to have received one of these kites, please know that we will replace it promptly or issue you a refund along with a $100 credit towards a future Best purchase. This small problem is limited to about 50 kites as far as we can tell. It is not a problem with the design or the Cuben Fiber material, just a stitching mistake where the operator actually missed half of the cuben fiber on the closing seam causing a severe weakness. If this same stitch mistake were to happen on a Dacron LE, the kite would explode as soon as it was pumped to 5psi.

We sincerely apologize for this inconvenience if you happen to have received one of these kites, but know full well, we will do whatever necessary to make you happy.

This issue has caused a small delay in future production, but we are now once again producing Hellfish as fast as we can.
_________________
Alex Shogren

Scott, I read that too. This does not explain the the delamination. They also can be very hard to tune, and have been falling out of the sky very easily in light winds. The Fish is not living up to the hype.

Tighe · Post by **Tighe** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:45 am

The road of innovation is scattered with casualties. Having been in windsurfing for most of it's lifespan, I can tell you there have been many similar "revolutionary" design concepts. Some last a year or two and fade, some become the norm.

Unfortunately you have people on both sides "pushing" your perceptions. On the one hand you have marketing for the company with the design tooting their horn about the new design, and on the other side you have others in a hyper critical vocal stance, attempting to reduce the impact of the new design.

Manufacturers know this and do their best to control and spin early perceptions. Unfortunately as consumers we have no idea what the truth really is. Is this really an isolated incident? Would they really admit if it was a much larger fault in the design? Or even all the Crossbow hype. Did Mark Shinn really give such a thorough review out of the goodness of his heart? Was he paid for the endorsement? Unfortunately we have no idea. It could be worse or it could be less significant.

I personally think there is some great thinking in Best's exploration of other materials, and the flat flying kites like the Crossbow and the Rapture. If you are an early adopter expect to find a few slight flaws as these concepts get further explored through use. You'll either be the first to drop into a new wave or learn a lot about why these concepts don't work.

I'm gonna stand back and watch for a bit more on these two new directions. I hope to try as much of them as I can ( hint hint ET). Trying the product yourself is the best way to understand if it makes sense for you and the way you ride. If you like what you ride, don't be lured away by the hype. Enjoy your ride.

SCOTT RIDOUT · Post by **SCOTT RIDOUT** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:00 am

I totally agree Tighe, I had my resurvations about slingshot for a few years, I'll admit that, but your absolutley right when you say, until you try it for yourself you really don't know. As with slingshot and me now I think they are easyly the best kite I have used for ease and simplicity and pure performance I don't think they can be beat, but again thats just my opinion I haven't used Naish or Cabrihna kites ever to form an opinion, I would like too, I think I would have an opinion that would really be worth a crap then. But until then if I have not used it I'm not knocking it, I'm to busy trying to have fun with all my friends I have aquired while taking up the greatest sport on the planet!!

jenny · Post by **jenny** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:05 am

I wonder how old their "operator" was. I am a skeptic (of the made in China gear) after hearing Dave R. (dr) the former owner of Rushwind sails talk about why he got out of the sail selling business. He said after the sails we no longer made here, he couldn't justify having kids (slave labor) sew the sails in China. I'm sure this is most likely not the case....Just wanted to throw in my two cents worth. And yes, I'm sure that's all it's worth. It's definitely not easy to find gear that's still made here....

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:40 am

Well, as some one who has done some work with China I think the child laws may not be being infringed. This is not based on any fact just instinct.
They have more than enough adults and the average industrialised chinese adult makes about $1000 per year.
In the last year I have seen a lot of manufacturing being pulled back to the U.S because of quality issues. The chinese seem to have a meet the ship date regardless of quality enviroment. I have seen many a Production Manager doing sprints over to China to try to solve quality issues, obviously this causes major delays in product delivery.
I don't know for sure but I think all the kite companies use a couple of suppliers so this problem could hit anyone.
I do think Best rushed to market too soon, I think preselling the product was very risky. But I have to admire the way they are coming up with new ideas and new ways to sell. Baring in mind most of the kite companies are being run my the same bozos who mest up windsurfing companies and development for many years. Cabrinha, Naish , Winner, Logocz the names of the sinners goes on from there.

Tom L · Post by **Tom L** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:41 am

I think Best has done some good for the sport. I can't stand anymore of their marketing though. If you surfed Kiteforum 2 months ago Alex & the Best reps were pushing this kite so hard it was ridiculous. Their claims were huge. The 20 & 25m Hellfish were going to be the new light wind standard. The hype was completely unrealistic. Where are the 20 & the 25 now?? Haven't heard a peep, it was all hot air. That is what I don't like.

Now compare that to the hype from Cabrinha, Takoon, Windwing. They all have flat kites coming out. There is no hype from the manufacturers themselves. The difference could not be more distinct. I'm sure these products will have some flaws also, but they will not have been preceded by a bunch of unrealistic hype.

Whatever....I certainly love all the innovation, and our sport will only get better and safer.

Coach · Post by **Coach** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:02 am

It's been interesting to watch the Best and flat kite discussions roil through Lakawa, and to now see the Best kite blow up...

I hate to seem pessimistic; like I'm sure I did on the previous posts about flat kites. But, innovations just don't happen in leaps and bounds very often - e.g. almost never.

The original arc bladder kite took a long time to perfect. Suddenly everyone in the industry is hyping innovations that take things vastly beyond where they are now. There just *has* to be trade-offs somewhere. Without pointing to anyone in particular, I mentioned a couple of these potential problems with flat kites, a proponent on this forum said "no, no, no", and then proceeded to mention a few problems with the kite that reinforced my points.

I'm constantly reminded of the Public Enemy song, "Don't Believe the Hype". That, and don't forget the classic - "The Revolution Will Not be Televised."

All that being said; if you are a bleeding-edge kinda' guy, buy a bleeding edge kite and see what happens. Most of the time, you'll have a ball playing with a cutting-edge new toy. I've blown a wad of money on my own share of winners and losers.

Just don't bank all your water time or your paycheck on something relatively unproven.

-Coach

Floridakiter · Post by **Floridakiter** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:24 pm

Hey everyone just found out about this problem with the HELLFISH, and after reading everyones comments i decided to call my best rep. from Florida. He told me there was a problem with the stitching on the leading edge and that is why the kites were blowing up. He also told me that they will be refunding everyones money plus the 100 dollars or they will send you your choice of Yarga, Nemesis, or BFK kite, plus when they do fix the problem with the HELLFISH they will send you a HELLFISH. There should be more info on this subject very soon. Just thought i would share what i knew. MATT