Snowkiting buggy help

[Woody]

Hey gang,

looking for some ideas in building a kite buggy for a disabled (parapalegic) guy in our hometown that really wants to try out snowkiting this winter. Anyone done anything like this before?

Thanks!

Woody

[speedsailor93]

I have experimented a bit with this over the years but to date have not come up with the ideal solution, but have several variants that work in certain conditions. Note that I kite, iceboat & use buggies as well so I have mainly used what I have at hand and check the results with GPS when possible. This is what I have discovered so far:

1) Ice or ice with small amount of snow:
- ice boat with kite instead of sail great for longer distance runs and as fast as with a sail (50-70mph range on my single seater) but you are going so much faster than the wind that turns are a real issue. Even with good kite control it is very easy to fly underneath the kite....slack lines & ice blades are not a good combination! Alternatively get too much kite power in the turn & you have quick eject mechanism from the seat.
- kite buggy with treaded tires & small ice studs works well & seems to max out around 30mph so far but the studs provide enough lateral resitance to stop most side slippage on the ice and enough drag to that you can turn at reasonable speeds. I use a Peter Lynn Monster buggy that is also great fun on land...the monster wheels are a more comfortable ride and will handle rougher terrain. Tacks are difficult to pull off as you cannot slide the studded tires around like you can on grass without studs.

2) hardpack snow:
- iceboat or buggy with blades & skis is OK but not very good lateral resistance. Also if the boat hikes up when you get to an angle where the ski edge lifts the blade off the surface can slide out pretty quickly.
- Buggy setup above also works here and depending upon snow depth you can slide some turns

3) soft/deeper snow:
- Tougher one to deal with sitting down in a buggy and I have not experimented much as I just grab a board and go. When the kids were younger I considered a seat mounted on a tilt linkage for downhill skis that would let you edge the skis by shifting weight. Without the linkage it will be difficult to turn flat skis even shifting body weight. Would need to mount in the binding area to let the skis flex appropriately. At one time Peter Lynn had a prototype buggy on their web site showing a buggy with snowmobile skis fitted but I do not think they ever produced it. I think in concept it could work OK on hard snow as you can still steer the front ski but probably too much drag from the carbides on ice and not enough lateral resistance on soft snow.

That is basically what I have figured out so far. Interested to see what others have experimented with!
Cheers,
Alan

[Matixsnow]

Can the guy sit up on his own? If so, a simple saucer would work.

[Eric P]

Hey Woody, sounds like a great project. I broke my foot about four winters ago, and to get my fix, I bought a sled with rails and handles on the side. I went out in about 3 inches of snow over ice, and had a blast on my 7 meter. I found that edging up wind was easy, but the entire operation required quite a bit of core strength. The way you were able to control the up wind / down wind angle was by applying pressure to the line tension on the bar between yourself and the kite. If you wanted to go more up wind, you would pull the bar to the down wind side, which causes your body to twist up wind to compensate. It worked great, and I didn't need to have any kind of steering apparatus on the sled. But like I said, required a bit of core strength.

If you were able to get him strapped to a seat with two skis for runners, and he was able to get the sled moving, he should be able to apply the pressure described above and get going up wind. I was even able to perform sliding down wind transitions with kite loops through the power window with no problem. Supper fun.

I would set the skis at a bit of an angle towards the center, so the edges cut in a bit but the surface is still there to float on deeper snow. The sled I used has an angle of about 10 degrees to the ice surface. A back rest and a surface to strap down his legs would be about all you would need on the sled. My guess is about 2 to 3 feet between the skis would work well for stability, but not so wide that you can't get it to turn. Then you just need to teach him how to fly the kite any he will be having a blast out there.

Have fun making it, whatever you decide to try. Another great resource might be Todd Hanson who about the most ingenious kite inventor I know. He would probably be able to make you something that would work great. I'll show you picks of the sled if you want to get a better idea of what I am talking about (in case my explanation leaves something to be desired).

Hope you can get you friend out and about this winter, I'm sure it would be a great thrill.

[Woody]

Thanks Alan and Eric for your detailed answers. Also thanks to Matixsnow, but this guy is looking for more of an adventure than a saucer ride
Steven was a very active athlete if you will - snowboarder, mountain biker, climber, etc that feeds off of the adrenaline that we get from these types of sports. I approached his father about a couple of years ago and told him I think I could get his son snowkiting to fuel his spirit for doing the 'extreme' once again. His son called me at once about the possibilty, and I told him winter is the best time to learn. So this will be the winter that I'll make that happen for him and his family

I want to do it right, and make sure his kiting experience will be life changing, so I thank you for the very nice responses. I'll bug Todd H for some ideas as well.

With gratitude,

Woody

[Tim Dunklee]

Woody, I'm very impressed with your wonderful goal of showing Steven a way to get the adrenaline fix that we all live for. I can't even imagine being in his situation and I can only hope I would have somebody as thoughtful in my life as you are to him. I don't have any advice for how to build the buggy, but please let me know if I can help in any way (even if it is just a small monetary contribution towards the build). Good luck with the project!

[kiteboymn]

COOL PROJECT! I'm totally in. I just spent 40 minutes writing and lost it all cuz i hit the browse submit. ( way to go kite boy)

I'll see you guys this weekend and we'll make it happen.

Todd