I have heard of many situations where an experienced kiter, in a drive to upgrade, has sold a high performance or large kite to an inexperienced kiter. Please, please, please be careful. All we need is an accident or two and we'll all lose access rights. Also, as all of us know, starting on high performance gear slows the learning curve. It is much better to get into user friendly, performance equipment and accellerate your learning vs. buying what you see the pros on and struggling for years just to "get it".
Anyone looking at a kite locally or on an international classifieds, feel free to post here for a review of appropriateness. Be sure to mention skill level, board, snow and/or water and weight.
Selling kites
Moderator: MK
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rudeboysaude
- Posts: 246
- Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:14 am
- Location: Sandstone, MN
- Contact:
Good call Tighe. I really had, or still have no idea what is the perfect kite for me. That's why I get one and try it out and if it doesn't work for me, I try another. I had a boss once that didn't go to college and when I complained about tution he said "you always pay for an education one way or another, even if it's through mistakes." It's true. Learning costs money. So buying a kite and trying it and then reselling if even at a lower cost isn't really all that bad for me. I'm all for people giving advice on stuff, but I'm also leary of it too. I had a guy try to sell me a Perception Pirroutte and told me that if I didn't buy that 8 foot long, high volume kayak I'd never learn to roll or run rivers.. Whatever man. I would have outgrown that thing in 2 weeks. Newer gear is sometimes better than stuff a few years old in my opinion. Everything is designed for easier use right? Why would anyone take something and make it harder to use? That's why listening to you guys is good. There is too much stuff out there and someone like me doesn't really have the experience to understand all aspects of it all.. I wrote Tighe before I bought my first kite and you didn't steer me wrong buddy. Thanks for that! That's why I read this site daily.. learn and learn..
thanks mon,
The best approach is to take a poll of opinions. Everyone may have a slight bias ( personal preference, brand loyalty etc) and after listening to a few there should be some common thread....somewhere near the truth.
It's not that manufacturers intentionally make kites or equipment difficult to use, it's just that sometimes to get the most performance out of a peice of equipment you have to give a bit on user friendliness. I've even heard that some designers say that if they didn't have to ever worry about relaunching they could design a much more efficient kite. The cool thing is that considerable R&D energy is going into the kites for the mainstream. There are a great deal of offerings from the main brands that are user friendly and high performance. Designed for the everyday flyer.
rudeboysaude,
Your posts definitely reflect a growing passion. Even though you sound like you've had a few frustrating sessions, this drive will carry you through. Don't think the learning ends. Each session is a lesson....and a gift.
The best approach is to take a poll of opinions. Everyone may have a slight bias ( personal preference, brand loyalty etc) and after listening to a few there should be some common thread....somewhere near the truth.
It's not that manufacturers intentionally make kites or equipment difficult to use, it's just that sometimes to get the most performance out of a peice of equipment you have to give a bit on user friendliness. I've even heard that some designers say that if they didn't have to ever worry about relaunching they could design a much more efficient kite. The cool thing is that considerable R&D energy is going into the kites for the mainstream. There are a great deal of offerings from the main brands that are user friendly and high performance. Designed for the everyday flyer.
rudeboysaude,
Your posts definitely reflect a growing passion. Even though you sound like you've had a few frustrating sessions, this drive will carry you through. Don't think the learning ends. Each session is a lesson....and a gift.
Tighe
I hope you are not making an implicit reference to me, Tighe. I sold Rudeboy my Warrior, but I tried to tell him that it was a lot of kite. In fact, I told him up front that it was probably not the kite for him. He wanted it anyway. I gave him a thorough explanation and offered to give a flying demo but we could not work that out.
The Warrior 16.5 is very user friendly for a monster kite. It is not an expert kite at all-- the Psycho fills that niche. Sorry the kite did not work out for you Rudeboy. You gave it shot. I started water kiting on a Wipika Airblast 11.8. Looking back, I see that was not the best move. I won't mention who the seller was, but his name starts with "T" and he posts here a lot.
The Warrior 16.5 is very user friendly for a monster kite. It is not an expert kite at all-- the Psycho fills that niche. Sorry the kite did not work out for you Rudeboy. You gave it shot. I started water kiting on a Wipika Airblast 11.8. Looking back, I see that was not the best move. I won't mention who the seller was, but his name starts with "T" and he posts here a lot.
Nice Mike. I was not referring to you, specifically. Sounds like you did what you could when selling it to advise the buyer.
The Airblast I sold you was not your first kite was it? I thought you had been flying for awhile. What did I say when I sold it to you? I'm surprised if I sold a complete newby an airblast 11.8 to learn on...wait....seems to me you were flying kites before me. Actually I remember a time down in Worthington, before I had started flying, when I tried to fly your kites and couldn't...I mean like I couldn't even keep it in the air...boy maybe I shouldn't be teaching...or my early clumsiness gives me a greater understanding of my students...anyway...you were flying before I started dude. And the Airblast was my second kite, so it was at least a year after that incident.
And look at you now. You're stylin' dude. Must have been the little push my kites gave you to push it to the next level..... : )
The Airblast I sold you was not your first kite was it? I thought you had been flying for awhile. What did I say when I sold it to you? I'm surprised if I sold a complete newby an airblast 11.8 to learn on...wait....seems to me you were flying kites before me. Actually I remember a time down in Worthington, before I had started flying, when I tried to fly your kites and couldn't...I mean like I couldn't even keep it in the air...boy maybe I shouldn't be teaching...or my early clumsiness gives me a greater understanding of my students...anyway...you were flying before I started dude. And the Airblast was my second kite, so it was at least a year after that incident.
And look at you now. You're stylin' dude. Must have been the little push my kites gave you to push it to the next level..... : )
Tighe
You are right, Tighe. I was an experienced kiter at the time, just not in water. Yes, you did warn me about the hazards of learning in the water on a high aspect ratio 16m kite. I did listen to all of that, but had already made up my mind. I think the same goes for Rudeboy. Part of the point is that we can only go so far in advising people about purchases. In the end it is the buyer's call.
As I told you once before, the 4m kite in Worthington was twitchy. So it is no surprise you had trouble flying it. Matt K. can verify that, because he owned it after I did.
As far as you kites helping me along goes, I did not start to really improve until I bought a Slingshot Fuel. Now I go higher, float longer, and get out in lighter air than ever before. My wife tells me I perform better in bed too. Man, Slingshot kites have really changed me life. I can't believe I ever settled for anything less!
As I told you once before, the 4m kite in Worthington was twitchy. So it is no surprise you had trouble flying it. Matt K. can verify that, because he owned it after I did.
As far as you kites helping me along goes, I did not start to really improve until I bought a Slingshot Fuel. Now I go higher, float longer, and get out in lighter air than ever before. My wife tells me I perform better in bed too. Man, Slingshot kites have really changed me life. I can't believe I ever settled for anything less!
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rudeboysaude
- Posts: 246
- Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:14 am
- Location: Sandstone, MN
- Contact:
What the hell people!
I didn't mean to start any wars here. I'm just a dude learning. I love the Warrior. If I had better skills that bad boy would kick some serious ass! I don't want to sell it really because I know that when I finally get this stuff down that the Warrior would be money! Come on people... sounds like people's opinions are being pushed here onto others. Mike, I love the kite. You did warn me and I have never once been scared of being hurt or anything on it. The depower on that thing kicks ass! I was more scared on my 6m in too high of winds. All this takes judgement calls by the user. You could make the safest kite in the world till some moron takes out his 16 m foil kite in 35 knot winds. Doesn't matter. I'm cautious. That's why I wanted the kite from Mike. Thanks for any concern Tighe, but I'm sure the 14m slingshot I bought is gonna spank me someday too. I don't care, that's the fun of it. Can't we all just get along people. This is a hobby and a passion are you guys are my go to bros right now that I look up to. Don't let me down..
A.
I didn't mean to start any wars here. I'm just a dude learning. I love the Warrior. If I had better skills that bad boy would kick some serious ass! I don't want to sell it really because I know that when I finally get this stuff down that the Warrior would be money! Come on people... sounds like people's opinions are being pushed here onto others. Mike, I love the kite. You did warn me and I have never once been scared of being hurt or anything on it. The depower on that thing kicks ass! I was more scared on my 6m in too high of winds. All this takes judgement calls by the user. You could make the safest kite in the world till some moron takes out his 16 m foil kite in 35 knot winds. Doesn't matter. I'm cautious. That's why I wanted the kite from Mike. Thanks for any concern Tighe, but I'm sure the 14m slingshot I bought is gonna spank me someday too. I don't care, that's the fun of it. Can't we all just get along people. This is a hobby and a passion are you guys are my go to bros right now that I look up to. Don't let me down..
A.
Dude
don't read too much into Mike and my banterings. I think I am speaking for both of us when I say, we're just having a bit o fun online. I fully respect Mike's views, advice and character. The only thing from him I might contest is the timing in telling me " you know my lines are just in front of you" as I took off after talking with him on the ice and cleanly sliced his lines in two. Other than that he seems far to wise for his years.
If you are fairly new to Chat you may not have seen this before. We banter every so often.
We are just playing Mike right?
Oh and by the way. Mike was being overly complimentary by saying the kite of his that I tried unsuccessfully to fly was twitchy. Everyone else had no problem. Just me. It was the experience that hooked me though...thanks Mike.
don't read too much into Mike and my banterings. I think I am speaking for both of us when I say, we're just having a bit o fun online. I fully respect Mike's views, advice and character. The only thing from him I might contest is the timing in telling me " you know my lines are just in front of you" as I took off after talking with him on the ice and cleanly sliced his lines in two. Other than that he seems far to wise for his years.
If you are fairly new to Chat you may not have seen this before. We banter every so often.
We are just playing Mike right?
Oh and by the way. Mike was being overly complimentary by saying the kite of his that I tried unsuccessfully to fly was twitchy. Everyone else had no problem. Just me. It was the experience that hooked me though...thanks Mike.
Tighe
Recently a friend of mine was sold a kite that would never work for him ever. It was a tiny foil, basically 1 size bigger than a trainer. He bot it from a shop on the premises that this would be his main kite that he could use almost any day. He is 185 pounds and this thing wouldn't work for him unless it was blowing 25+, even then he would be underpowered. I was out 1 day last year in the winter where it blew 25+, and that may never happen this year. I think it’s totally crap that he was sold this kite. If u can't go into a shop and get proper advice about what kite to buy, where can u go.
People say u want to buy a small kit to learn on. A small kite (not a trainer)costs $500-600, and after two times out you will have out grown the kite and be underpowered. It’s going to cost money to learn bottom line. So the best way to maximize $ is to take a lesson, learn on the kite provided with the lesson, and then purchase a kite or a few kites that suit your size and where u ride.
Also if u are going to kite in the summer, foils don't work unless u are a very competent kiter. But even still, competent kiters rarely use foils on the water because the majority of them jelly fish when they come in contact with water. Foils are also not good in gusty conditions, and it’s mostly gusty in Minnesota. I happen to own a foil, its fine. I fly my blimps 98% of the time because they take gusts better due to keeping shape. I feel foils are great to learn on because there is nothing to pop and most relaunch well. But they have a tendency to get more tangled than blimps because they have bridles and they don't keep their shape causing the lines to come in contact with each other and tangle.
The only reason I rant about this is because my buddy got put into the wrong kite by a person at a shop who is suppose to give good advice and sell equipment that suits the individual. My friend told the store person he will want to kiting on water and still was put into a foil, which no matter what people say, aren't good for water kiting. Look around, I have never seen a foil on the water in MN, not once while in Hawaii, rarely on the water in magazines, and the best guys in town all run blimps (lei). If you are only going to winter kite, foils are decent, but don't do well in gusty conditions. LEI are a pain in the butt to pump up, but once dialed in, they are great in gusty conditions and the only option on water. Back to my buddy, he said he was going to be buying another kite down the road, so the sales person was thinking great, this guy will by three kites: the foil, and then two blimps. Because u do need two blimps to kite in the summer if u want to be out when it’s light or strong wind. Two blimps that compliment each other and work with different wind conditions. So basically the sales guy is hoodwinking him into buying 3 kites in stead of two, not even three kites that compliment each other.
My advice, if you are thinking about buying kites this winter and think u may want to try water kiting, buy lei blimps. And when buying a kite think about sizing. If u buy a 12 and u weigh 180 lbs, it’s a middle of the spectrum size. It’s tough to pair up another kite with it and cover the entire wind spectrum. By a 10 or a 16, maybe the 10 first so you can learn with the smaller kite in the 10-15mph winds that we have here 98% of the time. Then when u pony up and buy the next kite the 16 u have two kites that compliment each other. Because a 10 and a 12 don’t compliment each other well, and a 12 and a 16 don’t either, unless u toss another size in there, and that’s more $$. Do some research, ask around, call real kiting, call Hawaii, call the companies, look at the wind ranges of the kites, plan ahead, otherwise u will end up bummed that u got the wrong size and u will have to buy another kite.
To those who give advice about what to buy, it’s important to ask the newbies ?’s about what they are trying to accomplish. They don’t know what to ask, so it helps to walk them through the process and help them become knowledgeable before they blow their hard earned money.
One guy's opinion
People say u want to buy a small kit to learn on. A small kite (not a trainer)costs $500-600, and after two times out you will have out grown the kite and be underpowered. It’s going to cost money to learn bottom line. So the best way to maximize $ is to take a lesson, learn on the kite provided with the lesson, and then purchase a kite or a few kites that suit your size and where u ride.
Also if u are going to kite in the summer, foils don't work unless u are a very competent kiter. But even still, competent kiters rarely use foils on the water because the majority of them jelly fish when they come in contact with water. Foils are also not good in gusty conditions, and it’s mostly gusty in Minnesota. I happen to own a foil, its fine. I fly my blimps 98% of the time because they take gusts better due to keeping shape. I feel foils are great to learn on because there is nothing to pop and most relaunch well. But they have a tendency to get more tangled than blimps because they have bridles and they don't keep their shape causing the lines to come in contact with each other and tangle.
The only reason I rant about this is because my buddy got put into the wrong kite by a person at a shop who is suppose to give good advice and sell equipment that suits the individual. My friend told the store person he will want to kiting on water and still was put into a foil, which no matter what people say, aren't good for water kiting. Look around, I have never seen a foil on the water in MN, not once while in Hawaii, rarely on the water in magazines, and the best guys in town all run blimps (lei). If you are only going to winter kite, foils are decent, but don't do well in gusty conditions. LEI are a pain in the butt to pump up, but once dialed in, they are great in gusty conditions and the only option on water. Back to my buddy, he said he was going to be buying another kite down the road, so the sales person was thinking great, this guy will by three kites: the foil, and then two blimps. Because u do need two blimps to kite in the summer if u want to be out when it’s light or strong wind. Two blimps that compliment each other and work with different wind conditions. So basically the sales guy is hoodwinking him into buying 3 kites in stead of two, not even three kites that compliment each other.
My advice, if you are thinking about buying kites this winter and think u may want to try water kiting, buy lei blimps. And when buying a kite think about sizing. If u buy a 12 and u weigh 180 lbs, it’s a middle of the spectrum size. It’s tough to pair up another kite with it and cover the entire wind spectrum. By a 10 or a 16, maybe the 10 first so you can learn with the smaller kite in the 10-15mph winds that we have here 98% of the time. Then when u pony up and buy the next kite the 16 u have two kites that compliment each other. Because a 10 and a 12 don’t compliment each other well, and a 12 and a 16 don’t either, unless u toss another size in there, and that’s more $$. Do some research, ask around, call real kiting, call Hawaii, call the companies, look at the wind ranges of the kites, plan ahead, otherwise u will end up bummed that u got the wrong size and u will have to buy another kite.
To those who give advice about what to buy, it’s important to ask the newbies ?’s about what they are trying to accomplish. They don’t know what to ask, so it helps to walk them through the process and help them become knowledgeable before they blow their hard earned money.
One guy's opinion
Well written advice Johnny. I agree with most of what you said. This is good stuff cause I get the question all the time from my students. I'm gonna add to it only cause I think this might be helpful to others.
I just got off the phone with a past student, who was asking the "best kite" question. It is a tough one. I usually start, as you did with whether or not you'll do it on water. If they don't see themselves going to water I still keep inflatables in the mix. Even if they will eventually ride on water, I take into consideration who they are. Some people would rather start with the simplicity and complete depowering of a foil. They are much less $ to get into and you'll know so much more when you buy your next kite. Also, you can be real hard on your first kite. If you destroy your first kite (which would be hard with a foil) then you haven't invested as much.
Then I ask them if they'll be mainly riding with others or more solo....foils have a bit of an advantage for solo riders.
Then I tend to steer people toward a kite that will be in the middle of their quiver. Usually a 4-6m foil ( equals 8-12m tube in power) or a 10-12m moderate aspect tube kite. We fly so many more light wind days that starting with a small kite just won't get you out. Most usually buy larger when then buy their second kite.
The part I struggle with the most in giving advice is for the winter only kiter, what are the flying differences between a 4 line foil and a tube kite? I just don't have enough experience with the new foils.
I disagree with you a bit about foils not doing as well in gusts. The new 4 line foils have as much or more depowering than the tube kites. The 2 line foils can be challenging in the gusts, because they have to move in the window to change their angle of attack, and you can find yourself with the kite too far forward in the window and a lull hits.
It is unfortunate that your buddy purchased the kite he did originally. It was a 5m foil, which I don't think is that small, and I don't know the nature of the dialog when he purchased it. I do know it must be tough for the seller and the buyer. I heard he now has a 13m GTO (flys like an 11m) on order which should be a great kite for him.
Some logic for a beginner kiter, after lessons, or considerable time with a trainer.
If you'll ride only in the winter
and you may ride alone often
and you're on a tight budget
and you weigh less than 190
Then buy a 4 m 2line foil
If you'll ride only in the winter
and you'll ride alone often
and money isn't an issue
and you weigh less than 190
Buy a 5-7m 4line Foil (Or a 7-9m in Ozone sizing)
If you think you may try it in the water
and you ride alone often
and you aren't sure if this is the sport for you
or you are on a budget
or you are a bit timid
then buy a 4-6m 2 line foil or a 10-12m Moderate Aspect tube kite.
If you are stoked about summer and winter riding
You want to go big and do tricks
You've got gusto
Buy a moderate aspect 10-12m Moderate aspect ratio tube kite
Great Moderate aspect ratio kites
Slingshot GTO (sized big)
Slingshot Fuel (lower high apect)
North Toro
Naish Boxer, Aero, Aero II
Wipika Matrix
Cabrina Co2
Great 2 line foils
Slingshot B series
Windwing foils
Flexifoil
Great 4 line foils
Ozone Frenzy
Flexifoil Blade III ( I think)
Another person's opinion.
I just got off the phone with a past student, who was asking the "best kite" question. It is a tough one. I usually start, as you did with whether or not you'll do it on water. If they don't see themselves going to water I still keep inflatables in the mix. Even if they will eventually ride on water, I take into consideration who they are. Some people would rather start with the simplicity and complete depowering of a foil. They are much less $ to get into and you'll know so much more when you buy your next kite. Also, you can be real hard on your first kite. If you destroy your first kite (which would be hard with a foil) then you haven't invested as much.
Then I ask them if they'll be mainly riding with others or more solo....foils have a bit of an advantage for solo riders.
Then I tend to steer people toward a kite that will be in the middle of their quiver. Usually a 4-6m foil ( equals 8-12m tube in power) or a 10-12m moderate aspect tube kite. We fly so many more light wind days that starting with a small kite just won't get you out. Most usually buy larger when then buy their second kite.
The part I struggle with the most in giving advice is for the winter only kiter, what are the flying differences between a 4 line foil and a tube kite? I just don't have enough experience with the new foils.
I disagree with you a bit about foils not doing as well in gusts. The new 4 line foils have as much or more depowering than the tube kites. The 2 line foils can be challenging in the gusts, because they have to move in the window to change their angle of attack, and you can find yourself with the kite too far forward in the window and a lull hits.
It is unfortunate that your buddy purchased the kite he did originally. It was a 5m foil, which I don't think is that small, and I don't know the nature of the dialog when he purchased it. I do know it must be tough for the seller and the buyer. I heard he now has a 13m GTO (flys like an 11m) on order which should be a great kite for him.
Some logic for a beginner kiter, after lessons, or considerable time with a trainer.
If you'll ride only in the winter
and you may ride alone often
and you're on a tight budget
and you weigh less than 190
Then buy a 4 m 2line foil
If you'll ride only in the winter
and you'll ride alone often
and money isn't an issue
and you weigh less than 190
Buy a 5-7m 4line Foil (Or a 7-9m in Ozone sizing)
If you think you may try it in the water
and you ride alone often
and you aren't sure if this is the sport for you
or you are on a budget
or you are a bit timid
then buy a 4-6m 2 line foil or a 10-12m Moderate Aspect tube kite.
If you are stoked about summer and winter riding
You want to go big and do tricks
You've got gusto
Buy a moderate aspect 10-12m Moderate aspect ratio tube kite
Great Moderate aspect ratio kites
Slingshot GTO (sized big)
Slingshot Fuel (lower high apect)
North Toro
Naish Boxer, Aero, Aero II
Wipika Matrix
Cabrina Co2
Great 2 line foils
Slingshot B series
Windwing foils
Flexifoil
Great 4 line foils
Ozone Frenzy
Flexifoil Blade III ( I think)
Another person's opinion.
Tighe
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rudeboysaude
- Posts: 246
- Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:14 am
- Location: Sandstone, MN
- Contact:
Tighe..
I stuck to the general ideas you posted. I'm a loner up here so foils seemed like the way to go. I got a little worried about the idea of pumping up my kite and setting up solo so I went with the foil idea. I bought that big boy because I didn't want to go out in real windy conditions that might be needed for a 12m inflato. I thought I would be much safer learning alone on a foil that depowered. So that warrior is a pretty decent kite for all those reasons. I've yet to fly that used 14m fuel I bought because I want someone to be there in case something went wrong. After realizing I didn't dare go out on windy days with the big boy I bought the 6m Devil foil. I think if I set up the brake Eric posted I'll be cool with taking that out solo again in bigger wind. Learning on the ice and dirt is much easier I think than learning solo on water. I think I'd get very frustrated then and tired from all the swimming I'd do. I think you got a good set of giudelines laid out there. At least from my little knowledge of kites and trying to learn how to make em work. Thanks man!
I stuck to the general ideas you posted. I'm a loner up here so foils seemed like the way to go. I got a little worried about the idea of pumping up my kite and setting up solo so I went with the foil idea. I bought that big boy because I didn't want to go out in real windy conditions that might be needed for a 12m inflato. I thought I would be much safer learning alone on a foil that depowered. So that warrior is a pretty decent kite for all those reasons. I've yet to fly that used 14m fuel I bought because I want someone to be there in case something went wrong. After realizing I didn't dare go out on windy days with the big boy I bought the 6m Devil foil. I think if I set up the brake Eric posted I'll be cool with taking that out solo again in bigger wind. Learning on the ice and dirt is much easier I think than learning solo on water. I think I'd get very frustrated then and tired from all the swimming I'd do. I think you got a good set of giudelines laid out there. At least from my little knowledge of kites and trying to learn how to make em work. Thanks man!
Wow- best discussion on "kite strategy" I've seen
Thanks, everybody! This is one of the most complete discussions of quiver building that I've found, and it has lots of local relevance, too. Most Florida/Hawaii kiters don't worry about whether their blimp will work on the snow.
Rudeboy- your offer of the 16m kite from a previous thread was seriously considered (esp. considering our profit sharing is coming up...), but I'm going to restrain myself a little, and based on these discussions, consider a tube kite for my next "adrenaline engine." Thanks for the offer, though!
My strategy went something like this: Traction kites of any kind look like fun, but it's clear that you can get spanked if your eyes get bigger than your inertia. I dropped by Scuba Center, and talked to the staff there. One guy was particularly helpful - didn't catch his name, but I think he's the owner. Various things I'd read recommended learning on anything from a 1-2 square meter trainer (cheap, but not likely to be useful in the slightest for my 200 pound frame), to larger kites. I got a good vibe in the store, explained my past experience and my preferred learning style (on the edge of getting spanked), and ended up with a slingshot b4. Turns out I could probably have handled something a little larger, maybe a 5m, but now I can look at a light wind kite and have two kites that will cover the whole range.
I must say, I'm happy with the purchase... I get a rush just flying it standing in a field, never mind being pulled across the ice. I like it so much, in fact, that I call it horrible, horrible names when it decides to get tangled on me (I'm blameless in this area, you understand. I distinctly remember *not* buying the kite with the instatangle feature.)
I'm off winter camping this weekend for a couple of nights with some friends. Some of them are bringing sleds (pull-sleds, not the motorized kind), and the wind forecast is for 10-15 in Ely on Saturday. Might have a go at kitesledding... we'll see how it goes!
Rudeboy- your offer of the 16m kite from a previous thread was seriously considered (esp. considering our profit sharing is coming up...), but I'm going to restrain myself a little, and based on these discussions, consider a tube kite for my next "adrenaline engine." Thanks for the offer, though!
My strategy went something like this: Traction kites of any kind look like fun, but it's clear that you can get spanked if your eyes get bigger than your inertia. I dropped by Scuba Center, and talked to the staff there. One guy was particularly helpful - didn't catch his name, but I think he's the owner. Various things I'd read recommended learning on anything from a 1-2 square meter trainer (cheap, but not likely to be useful in the slightest for my 200 pound frame), to larger kites. I got a good vibe in the store, explained my past experience and my preferred learning style (on the edge of getting spanked), and ended up with a slingshot b4. Turns out I could probably have handled something a little larger, maybe a 5m, but now I can look at a light wind kite and have two kites that will cover the whole range.
I must say, I'm happy with the purchase... I get a rush just flying it standing in a field, never mind being pulled across the ice. I like it so much, in fact, that I call it horrible, horrible names when it decides to get tangled on me (I'm blameless in this area, you understand. I distinctly remember *not* buying the kite with the instatangle feature.)
I'm off winter camping this weekend for a couple of nights with some friends. Some of them are bringing sleds (pull-sleds, not the motorized kind), and the wind forecast is for 10-15 in Ely on Saturday. Might have a go at kitesledding... we'll see how it goes!