Need advice on drift launching in deep water.

[Prof Marc]

So I'm at a DoD retreat in a New Hampshire. The facility is right on a lake about the size of Waconia (see link below).

For the past couple of days, the wind has been ripping and the forecast is for calling for more of the same tomorrow. I want to skip out on the meetings and go kiting. The hitch is that there are no shallow areas that I can find. Worse, there are no open or grassy areas on the shoreline, just trees, trees, trees.

Lauching near shore could be done, since the winds are side-shore: someone holds the kite at the shoreline; I swim out and launch.

The hitch is that I can't really ask any of the academic and military types here to help me. No one else has ever handled a kite; no one else is planning on getting wet.

So here is my plan to drift launch.
1) I setup my lines.
2) I hook in.
3) I wind up my lines.
4) I tie my board to my leash.
5) I swim out him as far as I can, holding the kite, dragging the board.
6) I let out the lines, while holding the kite.
7) I splash water on the canopy.
I position the kite, leading edge perpendicular to the wind.
9) I let the kite drift.
10) I try to launch (and I try not to hot lauch).

I realize that steps 6-10 will be treading water.

Any tips or advice (including "Just don't do it?")

--Marc

Lake Squam:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 5&t=h&z=13

[Lee_Uptown]

Grad student to prof... don't do it. It sounds like a very very high risk of failure but high payoff project. You still have students to graduate, they'll be very upset if something happens to you.

[JAE]

Looks like Ossipee Lake 15 miles east might have beter launches. Looks like a better kite lake too. Hope you get out

jeff

[mdh01]

Hmmm...the launch might not be too bad but the landing could be a nightmare...better find a different pond or a boat to launch from.

Mark

[Tighe]

Marc,
I have done what you describe. It is a sketchy way to launch but possible in a pinch and since it is side shore you reduce the risk a bit.

First thing I would ask is, is the shoreline and water clean enough that you can drag your unstrung lines into the water? ie. no rocks to hook on, no weeds in the water, no sticks etc. No loose stuff to catch in your lines. If so, then you could put your lines on your kite, walk to the kite with your bar and when near the kite lift one wing tip and bring the bar and lines to the upwind edge of the LE, grab the kite and walk to the water dragging the lines. Swim out 2-3 kite line lengths and turn the kite 90 degrees and let it drift down wind.

If the shoreline or water is not free from debris, then wind your lines back on the bar, when you are at the kite, lift one wing tip and feed the lines under the LE as you go to the front(upwind wind) side of the LE. This is an important step. Many put the bar behind the LE then walk around the kite and grab booth. THIS WILL RESULT IN A TWIST IN YOUR LINES.

I wouldn't attach your bar to your hook till later. As you swim out loop one hand through a bridle line to hold the kite but still have a free hand. As you take the lines off the bar be sure to throw them out over the canopy at first else they will want to get caught in the crack between the strut and the canopy. You can also hold the kite a bit off center and the lines will slide off the canopy better. Be sure to swim upwind as you take the lines off cause this will draw the lines out in the water and prevent them from clustering.

When you have the lines off the bar and flip the kite LE down, be sure the lines don't get cause on the struts and cleanly extend out from the bridle downwind and back up to the bar. Rotate and release.

I only hook in my leash when the kite floats downwind, and hold onto the Chicken loop. That way if things go bad you can just let go. If it's windy you may need to hook in as it floats down wind. Either way be sure to attach your leash.

If things go wrong you may need to flag the kite. If there is a knot you may need to break free from the kite completely.

If you can't see your lines extending out away from you, do not release the kite. They could be in the water around you.


Another option:
Is the shore big enough to launch on land? ie. that there is 2 kite line lengths from obstacle to water. AND NO bystanders.

if so you can walk 90 degrees to the kite with your bar and hook the chicken loop (bar extended out) to a fixed object like a sign post (via your leash). Then walk over to the kite and set the kite on it's wingtip, making sure the lines are clean. The kite should sit there if the wind is clean enough. Then walk back to the bar, hook in and raise the kite a bit and walk out.


To end your session, you'll need to do a self rescue at least 2 kite line lengths out. Put your kite to one side, flag your kite, pull in that one line, hook your bar in the board strap, get to kite and swim in pulling your board. (many options here)

In lighter winds you may be able to put your kite on it's wingtip and pull the top front line to pull the kite LE into the wind down onto the water.

Be careful Marc, but you should be able to it.

[dave12341234]

just make this a sticky. good info!

[Randy]

Great reading. I would have said you're crazy to even think about it, given the possibility of a twig or other debris catching a line. Gives me new respect for the creative mind and the focus and precision needed for meeting challenging situations. Tighe, put all that great wisdom in a book and I'd buy a copy. I'm still trying to hold full focus and precision to my self launches in shallow water.

Marc, if you do this please have all your contingency plans solidly in place in event of the unexpected.

[Tighe]

Just a note to all.

I know Marc and also am fairly aware of his skills, his gear, and his attention to detail, all of which I took into consideration when I gave the suggestions I did.

I would not take the above advice as complete. I know for example that Marc would not attempt this if the "launch" area is upwind of a swim area or any area with bystanders in the water. I complete "how to" would need to include quite a bit more safety precautions and details re self launching.

And I wholeheartedly agree with Randy, Marc please have all your contingency plans solidly in place in the event of the unexpected. I always carry a knife with me.

Let us know how it goes for you Marc.

[Prof Marc]

Thanks all, especially Tighe, for the advice!

I got out yesterday on this lake in New Hampshire and kited for hours. The wind was strong and smooth; the scenery stunning; I had a huge lake all to myself; there were bald eagles soaring; it was fabulous.

I self-landed the kite very competently. But the launch sure wasn't pretty. Let me share some of my thoughts.

Firstly, the go-or-no-go decision in a situation like this is surprisingly complex from a psychological standpoint. It's very reminiscent of the decision that backcountry skiers confront when trying to assess avalanche and terrain conditions.

Ask yourself this: you've traveled somewhere and brought your kiting equipment just in case there would be an opportunity. There's good wind, but no one else is kiting, -- perhaps no one else has *ever* kited this spot -- and the launch is sketchy. Will you always decide, "no, there's risk because there's uncertainty, I just won't go."?

This is why I really appreciated your answer, Tighe. Sometimes the right answer is "just don't go." (For example, even very experienced kiters don't go kiting off the coast of California when there's any offshore component to the wind.) But otherwise, detailed tips and risk assessment are very helpful.

After pondering Tighe's advice, my first conclusion was that there was no way to drag my lines unstrung into the water. There was a layer of brush everywhere along the shore. (The problem with this lake is that nearly all the shoreline is privately owned. All the public boat launches were in sheltered bays or the wrong side of the lake.) Also no way to launch from land.

At the same time, unwrapping my lines while treading water and holding the kite -- this sure doesn't sound easy. Then the possibility that the lines will get caught or knotted or twisted after I let get of the kite -- this is very real. I'm still unclear what results in a twist of the lines when wrapping them up. Doesn't such twisting always occur? It's surprisingly easy to pass the bar through the lines when walking out, after wrapping the lines up. This, I think, is why I've heard the advice to hook in and then wrap up the lines.

I concluded that I should practice drift launching in a controlled environment -- such as Malmo or SPI on a light-wind day -- before trying it in deep water. So, I decided to ask a non-kiter to launch me from shore. As many of you will agree, this is never the right decision. My idea was that he would stand as far out as he could -- which was about 15 feet from shore, and hold the kite; I would swim out, line myself up, and make sure the lines were clean; and then give him the signal; he would flip the kite over; splash some water on the canopy and push the kite away from shore; then I would launch it.

But a non-kiter almost never manages to hold a kite once the lines are tensioned. While I was trying to make sure the lines were clean, the kite caught some wind and rolled, first towards the trees, then away from the trees and downwind. It hot-launched; I got jerked; but everything was fine and I proceeded to kite. Still, I won't ever attempt this configuration for launching again.

The right solution was something that Tighe suggested: a fixed object. It wasn't a fixed object on land, but a raft! It was a bit shadowed from the wind, but far enough from the shore that a tethered launch would have been workable. I landed myself easily by flagging the kite and attaching it to the raft.

Thanks again for the advice. I agree with Randy: Tighe, you should consider collecting your advice and publishing it in some form. (I'll definitely print out your posting from a couple of years ago on drift launching from a boat and stuff this into my kitebag. There was a lot of great info there.)

--Marc

[Tighe]

Sounds like you made some wise choices Marc. Glad you were able to get out and scored a session.

Your choice of technique with an assistant minimized their involvement, good idea. I have done that as well where I just have them standing in the water upwind of the kite holding a bridle line while the kite rests on the water LE down. Then all they have to do upon "the signal" is to let go.

As far as bar wraps. Yes when walking out in the shallows attaching your bar will minimize any chance of bar entanglements. When swimming though it may be challenging to have your bar under the water.

The line wraps/twists I was referring to is when there is a single wrap on each side, like when the kite rolls. What happens is that when you walk up to a kite upside down and place the bar near the back of the LE and then flip the kite and bar. If you lift the bar up from this side, you've now rolled the bar through the lines, creating that twist in the outside lines. Hard to explain without images. There are a lot of ways to avoid this: stringing your lines upwind or feeding them under one side of the LE (downward strung lines), etc.

Yeah I think your idea to practice these techniques at Malmo or SPI is great. Specially in light winds.

I also agree with others suggestion to make sure there aren't other lakes that offer better launching conditions.

There are so many variables, it's really hard to put together a definitive guide. In this situation I knew the rider, the kite, and a bit about the conditions. Any guide would be a massive decision tree...if this,then that, else if this then .... I'll give it some thought though.

If ever I'm just hanging out waiting for the wind, I'd be more than willing to step through the process with anyone. It is the sketchiest type of launch but with the correct technique you can minimize the risk.

Thanks for sharing your experience Marc. Glad you scored a good one.

[MK]

I talked with some gentlemen from Chicago and those whom I spoke with said they don't allow drift launching because of the sketchy nature. I wonder if the education of how to do it properly is more of the culprit.

There are variables for different launch options: deep water, onshore wind, offshore wind, objects to port, etc...LAKAWA is of the opinion to know how not only out of neccessity for MN kiting (non coastal) but also for emergency to help be self sufficient if needed. For example, out kiting and kite somehow needs to be reeled in to fix then re-launched.

Judgement gets questioned by even the most experienced. It is human to err and we simply hope through eduaction we will minimize the err.

I'm surprised how simple it is to learn the elementary portions of the drift launch which supply you with knowledge to help use better judgement for various launch theaters.

Interesting to see the permutations of methodolgy used to help this launch method succeed like attach chicken loop prior to winding up lines to launch and uncoil lines with kite LE down and wedged on your head while walking backwards upwind. Even the most dialed method is at the mercy of milfoil.

I'll make this sticky and agree pictures would be a huge help. Understanding the main idea won't secure your safety, specific understanding is what builds the confidence. Most of all, brilliant suggestion to practice. Not only the launch but landing too (It's interesting how many people ask about how you turn the kite nose into the wind for a landing). I'll be happy to demonstrate upon request as well. I would add it is best to have help with an assisted launch/landing when the assistant is competent. I'll be happy to walk through this with the curious as well. Yes, these are all items covered in our classes but this sport somehow attracts some of the most intelligent minds that are willing maintain the mentality of DIY ~ why is that? I know a handful of people who have been at this sport long enough to be a lot better but refuse to take some help...Maybe I need to offer some discount of lessons to help them which in turn helps the rest of us. Maybe some make it look too easy.

Thanks for the post Marc, glad you had a great ride. Sounds picturesque and brings a smile just thinking of your experience. Thanks for posting this.

[Tighe]

Mike I'd rather not have this as a sticky. If you'ld like to post something similar and make it a sticky go ahead. My advice/technique here was very specific to Marc's situation and I don't want it to be a general how-to, as a sticky might suggest. There are too many unique situations that would require a different technique.

Please let this thread pass into the masses.