KITE ASSOCIATION PRO & CONS @MNADVENTURE/MEETING POSTPONED!

[JRN]

YOU ARE WELCOME TO EXPRESS YOUR VIEWS THERE AS WELL. LET US KEEP OR NORTHERN BRETHEREN IN THE LOOP, SO NO ONE FEELS LEFT OUT! BTW: DOES ANONE HAVE MORE DETAILS OF THIS MONDAY MEETING PROPOSED BY NATE?

[RandyL]

I met with Nathan for a cup of coffee a couple hours ago to see what he has cooking. He is planning on posting some details later today and possibly changing the meeting date to give a little more time for people to make room in their schedules. It is much better talking in person about passionate issues than thru a website. I hope the up coming meeting will go as well as Nathan and my conversation. I certainly don’t consider myself a euphorine (not sure if that is a real word or how to spell it) but we should be able to get along long enough to debate some topics that we all clearly have interest in and at least come out of it with our sport not moving backwards. I’m going to do my best to make it and I hope a lot of you will come too.

[JRN]

Please also read and confer w/ the MNADVENTURE subscribers. IMHOP Aaron has put forth some very thoughtful proposals. Once again, it is of upmost importance that EVERYONE be included in the discussion, so that if something is adopted, there are no sour grapes later, or claims of exclusion! BTW: Nate, can you please make sure that Rude & Em are notified? Also the crew up by Superior? Thanks.

http://www.mnadventure.com/index.php?op ... 15&id=2820

[Nathan B]

Hey guys(n gals)

Randy it was great to meet with you and discuss things,
we are looking at pushing the date of the meeting to Wed. night sometime? and like Randy stated I really prefer to discuss these matter in person rather then on a website ( some of us are not always online or have the time to sit down go thru things)

We are looking at meeting at caribou coffee in a meeting room but we would like a head count to see how big the body of people we need to have room for ? if you are interested please join us everyone is welcome.

Thanks Jim for posting this Aaron has put forth to make a great outline please visit mnadventure.com, we are not trying to exclude anyone and want everyone to be involved . Jim will do Ill let everyone know that I can.

NNB

[Tighe]

Looking forward to the discussion Nate.

Chris Nygard had mentioned that PASA membership last weekend. I was not aware that any rider can get individual insurance for $50 a year thru that membership. That alone would make that worthwhile. Since an association doesn't need to be formed in order for anyone to get that membership, I think it will be important to develop clear benefits for the local rider, to encourage them to join the MNKA. Limiting access and admission to events without MNKA membership could backfire. Requiring PASA membership for events and access may even be seen as negative.

The benefits of the PASA membership (see below) were clearly developed to get people to want to get a membership....I sure do. I think it will be important to develop similar benefits for riders to join MNKA, to ensure the greatest adoption.

Looking forward to hearing the ideas that are developed.

PASA membership benefits:
-“Boarding Pass” Membership Card showing your measurable skill level.
*** Show your skill sets to instructors around the world to identify your level
*** Identify your skills to be eligible for rental equipment (Levels 2 and 3)
*** Identify your skills to have access to restricted launch/riding areas. (Levels 2 and 3)
*** $1 million bodily injury and property damage per occurrence
*** $1,000 deductible for general liability
*** Accidental medical $10,000/25,000
- One-year subscription to Kiteboard Magazine (nearly pays for your membership!)
- Qualify for a $20.00 discount on the premium membership with www.ikitesurf.com/
- Monthly e-newsletter including member profiles, promotional offers and safety tips from instructors
- Ability to network with instructors and riders in PASA forums

[Jeff G]

Nate, Do you have an email address or something that you would like people to respond to if they're interested in the meeting, or do you want to use this forum to collect the info and to announce the time and location?

[steveb]

My instincts are not to like the idea of any official organisation, they secondly don't like the idea of coming under any for profit organization.

If people want to run a not for profit MN /WI organization and volunteer their time that's probably not too bad, if money becomes part of the goals of the organization, such as Pasa. It seems to me it's more about squeezing dollars than providing services.

I'm open minded to hear suggestions, expected benefits, but personally I'm a little jaundiced towards organizations that make money from our fun, ....please forgive me if you disagree.

[Dean Rizer]

Three years ago potentially dangerous situations were reported at White Bear and Waconia. There were also issues that surfaced at Park Point with the surfers. 6-7 of us met several times with the idea of identifying common popular launch site problems and possible remedies. We concluded that major launch site problems could best be handled locally by people who regularly use the site. I think there was also an underlying assumption that most persons using a site for the first time would ask a local about potential hazzards restrictions etc. This site is loaded with this type of useful information and I've seen numerous posts requesting information about unfamiliar sites.
I think the local system works well. We are not self appointed inforcers, most people are reasonable and respectful. If someone is putting ones self or others in a dangerous situation put yourself in a position to help. I see this almost every time I ride, it works!

[scottman]

I see above the PASA insurance quick detail, has anyone ever had to use this insurance? Most people carry health insurance anyway, the one who don't under the up and coming Obama insurance will have to get it any way or take the government ran insurance. Who is PASA's insurance company?

I to agree with Steve and Dean, we as a poeple have managed to look after our community ourselves without any outside organization which seems to be working well, no mishaps yet. To actually try and make a launch only accessable to someone with a PASA certification is obsurd, I don't recognize PASA as really anything, they don't govern anything legally, legally nobody can stop you from using a body of water, unless there is a law passed and the area is marked, so I odn't really get what else PASA would do for our community other than fund someone elses idea's about what's right and wrong.

[Tighe]

I think we might want to wait to react till we hear what Nathan is proposing. Aaron took a stab at an outline, and I would encourage everyone else to consider doing the same. I don't think anything is fixed in stone. I think the intent here is to develop an association of riders for the support of the riders. The role that that association plays in our daily riding is still yet to be determined (correct me if I'm wrong Nathan).

The first question we need to address is do we need to form an organization and/or is now the time?
If we agree we do, then what would we, as riders, want this association to do for us (start with a wish list and narrow down to reasonable)?
Then it comes down to how do we make it happen?

I highly encourage all who have an opinion to try and attend Nathan's meeting.

[steveb]

Can the people arranging the meeting try to make sure we have at least 2 weeks notice, that way most interested people can hopefully get it into their schedules.

Additionally it would be nice if the parties wanting an organisation documented the goals, services, individuals, proposed costs, affiliations etc.and posted it on Lakawa and MnKiting so going into the meeting we could have some idea of what we're discussing rather than a free for all.
I realize part of purpose of the meetings to discuss what the organisation etc. would be. But it seems to me some people have ideas already and I'd like to see what they're proposing.

[RobH]

Thanks to all who are spending time and effort moving this forward. Count me in on the meeting and helping anyway I can.

[pete168]

I would like to make the meeting, but would need a little more advance notice. Working evenings has a way of messing things up.

Pete

[Tighe]

I don't know how much work has been done on the development of this already. Maybe you can share your thought Nathan. I did a quick search for some associations that seem to be providing the role we are seeking:

Columbia Gorge Kiteboarding Association
Seems like they are doing some great things for access, working with port and park authorities. Annual cleanup events. Minimal membership fees, no regulations. Concensus building to self police some areas
http://cgka.net/

MORC
Not kiteboarding but a very successful model. They work to maintain and open new trails. They have community events. From what I hear they do a lot of great things for anyone riding local Mountain bike trails.
http://www.morcmtb.org/

Here is how a similar situation was resolved in Chicago. This is listed in the launch section of their local forum. They also have placed signs up. This beach was shut down and through the actions of PASA was reopened. They are fortunate enough to have lifeguards on duty to help regulate. It is backed by the Chicago Police...(eeks)
http://www.chicagokitesurfing.com/ridin ... trose.html

[Nathan B]

Again times are busy for me, I am on lunch break from cutting up trees and working and do not have time to get on here and go over things (sorry) .

the goal of the association is to Preserve,Progress Kiteboarding and Educate the awareness of kiteboarding not to police our sites. Scott I think you are getting the wrong point, I hope you can make the meeting and by no means is this something we are trying to make money off of.

for whom are interested please lets meet up wed. night and go over things????
, for those who can make it and would like to be involved we can have meetings every week, every other week????

again we are thinking of meeting some where on the North side of the city like white bear so itll be more of a middle meeting grounds. so if any one can help with that it would be great.?

feel free to email me with any questions nathan@northstarkiteboarding.com
cheers

[steveb]

Nathan it's not fair to say "Let's get together Wednesday" a lot of people interested are proffesionals who have schedules and cannot knee jerk. People need at least 2 weeks notice of the meeting.

[wings]

reposted...

[scottman]

Sorry Nate if you got the wrong impression from me, I know it's not about someone makeing money, sorry if I came off that way. I'm just curious as to why you or maybe it's another person that might have been involved that think we need PASA in our area, just curious?

I am unavailable to meet Wednesday night, is there maybe a later night during the next few weeks that this meeting can be done, I too need time to plan because of work and other things I have going on.

[JRN]

PASA has stepped in to help other regions preserve their kite access. INHOP it is a good deal & I'm going to get it no matter how this shakes out. I will recommend postponing future meetings until more people can attend. Hope we can ride Milly again next weekend!

[BBAddict]

JRN,
What the heck does INHOP stand for? Maybe I'm not as hip to the young kids text lingo as you!

I think we should be realistic. Just like a party or the gathering, we're not going to get a date that works for everybody. I'm sure there will be multiple meetings and meeting notes from each meeting can be published to keep everybody up to speed with what its being discussed.