Stay connected in the wind. This forum is for anyone who rides the wind, winter or summer, on whatever board suits their fancy. Share the stoke, find out where people are going, ask any question, share your discoveries, and discuss any esoteric idea you may have related to the pursuit of wind. Please keep it positive.
I'm looking for opinions on a couple of Cabs, specifically an 07 Contra 14M and an 06 Crossbow 16. I'd really like to here about the pros and cons of each. Is one better than the other? I'm looking for a good reasonably priced lite wind kite.
Both are good kites,the 07 has a simpler front line adjuster than the 06.The 06 line adjuster would get stiff with cold which was awkward for winter kiting.
Make sure they have no combing on the leading edge and they should be OK
I have a 16 06 crossbow that I was thinking of selling. It has been well loved.. but it has a lot of life in it.... That is the kite I flew around at the crossing almost exclusively.
Very good lightwind kite. Pretty slow in the air.. but it is a big kite. It enjoy playing around with it when it is like 8-15mph.
If we meet up at some point you can have a go at it and see if you like it.
What's your weight and experience level? What size board(s) will you be using it with?
I've never flown the 14 Contra but I still ride and love my '06 16M Crossbow. When paired with a Glide or other zero rocker light wind board you will be out planing and having fun in very light wind. Another added benefit is jumping. With more cloth in the sky you will get better height and glide. Yes it's slow but I can get out and have fun in very light winds. In the winter if the kite will fly you will be riding. If you get the old bar that comes with it you can buy an upgrade on the depower straps (bungy vs. crappy plastic tubing). I've paired the kite with a 12 '08 Crossbow and it's a great set up around here.
I can't speak about the crossbow, but the contra 14 is a serious pig. It has no bar pressure so you can't feel where the kite is. The kite turns unbearably slow but is pretty grunty. I would not recommend this kite to anybody.
No bar preassure, are you kidding, the 14m contra feels as though it's going to pull your arm out of their sockets.
For heavens sake never go near a modern hybrid, you'll hate it, their half the bar preassure of a contra.
Being used to a hybrid the last time I flew our 14m Contra I was sure the blocks were broken it felt so heavy....you must have biceps like basketballs.
I've flown the Contra 14 a few times and I thought it was a pretty nice kite. Seemed to do really well in light winds, and also sat on it's wingtip at the side of the window like many of the newer kites do. Boosting and float seemed pretty nice. I too am not a fan of zero bar pressure, but this kite has a good amount of bar pressure (not too much and not too light).
The big Crossbow I is a good kite as well.
They are probably pretty close in terms of light wind performance.
I don't think you could go wrong with either of these.
My comments are only based on 2-3 short sessions on each, so I'd give Bryce's, Dave's and Steve's comments more weight.
I purchased a used 06 crossbow 16m cheap. It is a very stable kite. I love the way it sits still in the sky and pulls like a monster truck. If you like more performance, you might find this boring. SS turbos are more exciting to fly. My 08 Rev 15m is even more fun but lacks the low end power of turbo. Heard 09 has better low end but have not tried one. But I have very limited experiance. I Have only tried 07 ss turbo2 7,9 and 14m, 08 rev 15, 06 Cab crossbow16 and Peter Lynn Foil. I modified the bridal on my crossbow using links that Mike Winter provided. I only flew it once un-modified. After the mod the bar pressure is lighter and the turning seemed a little faster. Thanks Mike. Here is the link if you want to try the mod. It is easy to reverse if you don't like it. It makes the bridal look like an 07 Contra. http://www.newind.org/viewtopic.php?t=113 http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 8&start=30
Untill I can find a good price on a used t2 or T3 17M The cabi will be my light wind weapon.
Tom Latcham
Last edited by tom_latcham on Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
First of all, I don't have any experience on water....yet. I weigh about 180 lbs. I do have an 11M T2 which I have some experience with. I've spend most of my snowkiting time on foils however. I'm thinking when I do get out on the water, I will be using the T2 and a big litewind board for learning.
Thanks for all the info on these two kites. I'm also considering a larger SS turbo or T2 as well. Obviously, flying them in person would be best. I guess I'll check out bigger kites when and if summer ever gets here. As far as learning goes, my biggest obstacle will be finding a decent place to launch and practice on Lake of the Woods.
BTW, if anyone is still iching to do some snowkiting, we just got buried with about 8 inches of snow with more coming. Temps are only going to be in the twenties for the next few days. Lake of the Woods is calling...
I'd go for either a 16 Xbow or see if you can pick up a 17 T2 or T3. All big kites turn slow but they can be a ton of fun on a 8-15 day. Mike W can give you some good feedback on the big T2 17.
I assume you're talking about the two kites on feeBay?
Yup those are exactly the kites I'm looking at. Kites have been selling pretty reasonable on there as of late. You don't see too many used T2s for sale though.
I should qualify my comments on the contra. It was my first bow kite experience. It was a contra 3 14. I rode it for a half an hour in ~12-19 mph and couldn't get used to the bar pressure. I was coming from 2 years of c kites. However, when I rode the rev I could scarcely notice a difference and could still "feel" the kite without needing to look at it. Does the contra have multiple riggings? Like 2:1 vs. 1:1? I'm just curious how I could have been thrown off by the difference in bar pressure (going from torches to the contra) so much to have it ruin my entire ride on it.
Just curious...
All kites are different, feel is what you're used to, everything else will feel different.
I went from Cabs, one of the heaviest bar preassures, to Ozone, one of the lightest. It took a couple of sessions to adjust but now most kites feel really heavy to me.For me the benefit is I have had no elbow problems since changing to lighter preassure and now that I'm used to it I feel the same feedback from the bar as you probably do with a cab or whatever. Ozone has slowly increased their bar preassure a little in 08 and 09 so I guess they feel most people don't want super light. I do but unfortunately I'm not their only customer.
Up North. With your weight the 14 or 16 will work fine, a lot of the performance will come from what lightwind board you ride. The 16m Xbows a classic, good performance in light airs, it'll relaunch in next to nothing and super glidy jumps. The contra has a little more grunt, a slightly higher wind range, but again depending on your board it will get you going about the same time as the 16m. A lot of us that had the 06 16m xbow ended up with 14m contras and found it was all we needed for a big kite.
The contra had the new reinforced bridle with 4 blocks to speed the turning and increase depower. Of the 2 I'd go for the contra as it's slightly newer technology. The 16m is the first bow kite their ever was, awesome kite for it's time but the contra has a few tweeks added after they'd learned a little more about the bow style kites.
I'm no cabby expert( if it doesn't have a flying fish I don't fly), but...I seem to recall some of the early Contras tearing along the seam between the canopy & the strut. If you're buying on-line, beware, & ask the seller specifically about this
issue. Not to plug one dealer, but....Bob @ Kite Riders in Madison has great pricing on Cabrinas, & he is a reputable dealer who will stand by his gear should you have problems.
WARNING:
I AM AN UNREFORMED SERIAL FLIRT!!
(please respond accordingly ;^{})
I have Mike Winter's old 06 Crossbow. I like the Crossbow a lot for light wind flying and the bar pressure seems just fine to me (with Mike's mods). Of course I'd like it better if it would turn faster, but that's just big kites. On snow, if there's enough wind to get it off the gorund you will have a good day cruising. On the water I use it with my 154 Door for light winds. As the wind picks up, it can get overpowering quick, but you can de-tune it quite a bit by moving the back line attachments.
Another kite I've wondered about for light wind would be the Nemesis, with hopes for just as much power and faster turns. Any feedback on this kite?
Wow lots of responses. I dont have experience on the 2006 Cab kites, however The first Contra I had was 2008 - Contra 3. The kite definatly has moderate to heavy bar preasure, its slow but does what its suppose to do - get you riding in light wind. The Contra was more of a park and ride kite. Park the kite in one spot and let the grunty torque pull you across the lake. Super big leading edge.
Rob Hyland
Cabrinha Shop Rider / Lakawa Team Rider
Thanks for the tip JRN and thanks to everyone for all the info and comments. The Contra that I was looking at on ebay has been repaired in the area you described. Actually I'm leaning more towards a Crossbow. Or I may just wait and find a used T2, I know they're great kites.
Jack...drop me an e mail, I have a couple of larger kites for sale I can send you photos of, if you're still in the market.
My e mails on the name tag thingy by the posts.
