Well I finally upgraded from old non-sheetable foils. I finally got out on the new 12M Manta. Monday it didn't perform in the light wind as welll as I had hoped. Travis was getting more speed going on his '04 12M Frenzy (he was on short skiis and I was on a snowboard). Tuesday morning was pretty much the same but I went out on the snowmobile packed part of the lake and with a tad more wind got a bit more speed going. Then the wind picked up and the Manta transformed itself. I was able to send/turn it fairly fast for a large kite. Very lofty indeed. Probably too lofty for me right not. One time I had a good loft and got another loft from a gust and I was up there for awhile. Dropped kinda hard the last 5 feet as I got a tad in front of the kite and wacked the back of my head good; slight headache for awhile. So like I was advised, the kite was quite a bit like my 16M Waroo but I'm thinking it's a faster turner.
Had some lunch and came back out and got a friend introduced to the sport using the 9M Ranger. The brake line is fed thru the bar on this one. Three lines thru the bar make it stick a bit. It's a slower/floater kite, maybe a hair stabiler than the Manta. The brake system is hard to find/grab and takes a lot of line to be pulled to stop the kite or reverse launch (Tighe, is there a mod for that???). The wind was coming down and becoming more gusty and with a newbie behind it the kite was folding around a bit. One last point was that in the lighter wind I had to cleat in the kite a lot and that left a long cord dangling around in your way. I wouldn't have noticed these things as much except the Manta has the brake, bar friction and dangling cord all fixed.
There was still a bit of light and wind left so I jumped back on the Manta. With a bit more experience now I was able to get moving a bit better in the lighter wind (I think) than previously. I still wish someone could get the apparent wind(in light wind) pull in these sheetable kites that I get from my old 7.2?M Mosquito. Maybe they should check that design out as it appears to be the most efficient thing ever out there.
So that's my 2 cents so far.
Manta II 12M review and a bit of 9M Ranger
Moderator: MK
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WildBill
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 11:21 am
- Location: Spring Lake on the south end of Prior Lake
Manta II 12M review and a bit of 9M Ranger
ENJOY 
........... Bill
........... BillBill,
Call me sometime. Sounds like your Ranger isn't stock, and most of the issues you mention can be easily remedied.
Amazed to hear that the Ranger held up as well as it did against the superstar of all foils costing twice as much. I think you've probably only started to tap the potential of the Manta though.
Thanks for the review.
tighe 651 dot 428 dot 4121
Call me sometime. Sounds like your Ranger isn't stock, and most of the issues you mention can be easily remedied.
Amazed to hear that the Ranger held up as well as it did against the superstar of all foils costing twice as much. I think you've probably only started to tap the potential of the Manta though.
Thanks for the review.
tighe 651 dot 428 dot 4121
Tighe
"I still wish someone could get the apparent wind(in light wind) pull in these sheetable kites that I get from my old 7.2?M Mosquito."
Bill, here is the trick to that. You have to fly the kite in non-sheetable mode. You will find the power you are looking for. You'll just need to add a couple of items to your gear. 1st you need to intall a harness line to your kite bar. Keep the harness line attachment points as close together as possible as this makes it much easier to steer the kite. 2nd you need to get a leash to attach to the kites brake line. You will NOT be using the chicken loop! You will notice an increase in power.
The Ranger~*~sounds like you guys were adjusting the depower backwards. For light wind the cleat adjstment will have no line dangling.
Pete
Bill, here is the trick to that. You have to fly the kite in non-sheetable mode. You will find the power you are looking for. You'll just need to add a couple of items to your gear. 1st you need to intall a harness line to your kite bar. Keep the harness line attachment points as close together as possible as this makes it much easier to steer the kite. 2nd you need to get a leash to attach to the kites brake line. You will NOT be using the chicken loop! You will notice an increase in power.
The Ranger~*~sounds like you guys were adjusting the depower backwards. For light wind the cleat adjstment will have no line dangling.
Pete
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WildBill
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 11:21 am
- Location: Spring Lake on the south end of Prior Lake
Hmmm, so Pete your saying just connect the bar to my harness with a short rope. Logic eludes me here why that would work. Have to dink around with it on a low wind day.
I hear you on sheeting the Ranger. I thought it was the other way too but I couldn't get the kite to fly without pulling that cleat way in. I talked to Tighe and it sounds like it probably is hooked up wrong in a couple of ways and will fix these problems.
Hope your shoulder is better!
I hear you on sheeting the Ranger. I thought it was the other way too but I couldn't get the kite to fly without pulling that cleat way in. I talked to Tighe and it sounds like it probably is hooked up wrong in a couple of ways and will fix these problems.
Hope your shoulder is better!
ENJOY ........... Bill
........... BillThis brings up a good point. There is a lot of great used gear out there, and if you go that route try to ensure that it is as close to stock as possible. And if you're flying it for the first time, make sure you are at the lighter end of the kite's range.
I've come across numerous situations where gear was bought and the bar and lines modified, safety systems bypassed, or non stock bars substituted with the sale.
If you're less experienced you might ask an experienced rider to fly it for a bit and make sure everything is set up write. Won't take long for most experienced riders to assess the basics.
In this particular case a mod was done incorrectly that would have prevented the depowering of the kite in an emergency. Not good.
I've come across numerous situations where gear was bought and the bar and lines modified, safety systems bypassed, or non stock bars substituted with the sale.
If you're less experienced you might ask an experienced rider to fly it for a bit and make sure everything is set up write. Won't take long for most experienced riders to assess the basics.
In this particular case a mod was done incorrectly that would have prevented the depowering of the kite in an emergency. Not good.
Tighe
Bill, for light wind riding, the following ONLY applies to your Ozone kite. When you fly the kite without being connected to the chicken loop you are basically flying a 2 line kite, and the power difference is quite noticeable. The only depower at your disposal now is the clamcleat depower. As far as a harness line, a piece of rope wont do, you need a real harness line, like in windsurf harness line, but a fixed length so it is rigid as you swing it out of the way of the chicken loop when you are not using it. Mine, 10" long, is a SS brand but I could not find anything on their website. Also important is that you position the harness line in such a way that the ends are as close together as possible as this makes it so much easier to steer the kite. (figured that one out just the other day) You also need a handlepass leash as you will no longer be connected to your kite via the chicken loop. You'll need to attach the HP leash to a strong part of your harness. Additionally, the HP leash must be long enough as to not engage the kites brake lines when you are flying. A piece of rope wont do here either because you want your leash to have an emergency detach function in case you need to completely ditch your kite. You can still pull the Red Hat to shut the power off when flying out of the chicken loop. I hope this makes sense. I'd show you mine but I don't have any pictures. If you had the parts I'd set it up for you but I don't see you coming down here to ride...there's too much untracked powder.
There is more power for some reason, quite noticable.
Leash: http://www.oceanextremesports.com/catal ... d80d12ab29
Leash: http://www.oceanextremesports.com/catal ... d80d12ab29
Harness line: http://www.kiteworld.net/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=86
The Dakine Mono Kite Line.
This one would work excellent, 12", says it is compatible with chicken loops.
Your set Bill. Perhaps you can find this stuff locally though.
The Dakine Mono Kite Line.
This one would work excellent, 12", says it is compatible with chicken loops.
Your set Bill. Perhaps you can find this stuff locally though.
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steveb
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:31 pm
- Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
If you want to build apparent wind this is not the technique to do it.
Flying the kite without using the depower ability just sets the kite to max power, power ( grunt) is not apparent wind. Using this method will actually slow the kite down which decreases it's ability to build apparent wind. It'll feel as though there's more power in the kite, but the kites actually flying further back in the window and trying to pull downwind, which is why it feels more powerful, but it'll be slower.
To max your apparent wind when you're flying the kite park it at the edge of the window as you're riding along, pull the bar in to the max, now slowly let your bar out while watching the kite, at some point you'll see the kite visibly surge forward and accelerate. Note where you let the bar out to when the kite surged. This is your optimum bar position for building apparent wind.
Apparent wind is the wind that's built by your and the kites speed through the
air. When you stick your hand out of a car window the wind you feel is apparent wind, the wind created by the car moving in a direction through the air.
When the car goes 30 mph you feel a 30mph breeze, accelerate to 40 and you feel 40mph winds. It's the same with your kite, you dive it and fly it fast because the faster it and you go the more apparent wind it creates. At some point you can lock the kite onto the wind your momentums creating. Then the limiting factor is drag, which is why it's so important to make sure you have a good wax job on your ride of choice.
If you feel yourself slow down push the bar out to your speed setting and sine the kite a couple of times.
Kites like the Manta are not designed for grunt, if you want grunt get a frenzy, they're designed for speed, so use it properly and you'll shoot along.
Flying the kite without using the depower ability just sets the kite to max power, power ( grunt) is not apparent wind. Using this method will actually slow the kite down which decreases it's ability to build apparent wind. It'll feel as though there's more power in the kite, but the kites actually flying further back in the window and trying to pull downwind, which is why it feels more powerful, but it'll be slower.
To max your apparent wind when you're flying the kite park it at the edge of the window as you're riding along, pull the bar in to the max, now slowly let your bar out while watching the kite, at some point you'll see the kite visibly surge forward and accelerate. Note where you let the bar out to when the kite surged. This is your optimum bar position for building apparent wind.
Apparent wind is the wind that's built by your and the kites speed through the
air. When you stick your hand out of a car window the wind you feel is apparent wind, the wind created by the car moving in a direction through the air.
When the car goes 30 mph you feel a 30mph breeze, accelerate to 40 and you feel 40mph winds. It's the same with your kite, you dive it and fly it fast because the faster it and you go the more apparent wind it creates. At some point you can lock the kite onto the wind your momentums creating. Then the limiting factor is drag, which is why it's so important to make sure you have a good wax job on your ride of choice.
If you feel yourself slow down push the bar out to your speed setting and sine the kite a couple of times.
Kites like the Manta are not designed for grunt, if you want grunt get a frenzy, they're designed for speed, so use it properly and you'll shoot along.
Regional Ozone Team rider
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WildBill
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 11:21 am
- Location: Spring Lake on the south end of Prior Lake
Makes Sense. Pete was saying more power and his idea seems like it might do that. Steve is saying it's speed to get you apparant power(my interpretation). It seems like I can get my old Mosquito to get going enough in light wind to generate more apparant power(thus speed). Maybe because by Steve's words it's more efficient. It certainly doesn't turn much faster than the larger 12M Manta if it does. Might have to try them at the same time to verify my claims. The 12M Manta would not turn fast until the wind picked up (to I'm guessing 15 MPH) and I expected it to, thus not the low wind speed I expected out of it(as it's advertised as a high aspect fast kite). Once it got up to that speed it zipped along nicely. It could be my inexperience with it too as one may be able to get a better knack of the trim settings and subtle bar movements/timing. TBD. Still I encourage all manufacturers to take a serious look at the old Windtools Mosquito kites and pick up what they can so we all can have the best of both worlds 
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A couple of other comments I forgot on these two kites:
Both kites were fairly stable parked above my head. I think the Manta a bit more stable but I don't have enough recent time on the Ranger. I had to do this so I could pull my fingers in my glove to warm them up in the 0 degree temp. I could not do this with any of my old foils and had to drop them first; they were much higher aspect ratio kites than these sheetable ones (unless it's an optical illusion as I didn't have anything bigger than the truck pulling 7.5M Mosquito).
The donkey dick on the Ranger was mega stiff. It looks like a screw holds in the swivel ball of the dick. Tighe, is there a way to change this to a more flexible in the cold donkey dick? Sooner or later it will probably break anyway is my guess.
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A couple of other comments I forgot on these two kites:
Both kites were fairly stable parked above my head. I think the Manta a bit more stable but I don't have enough recent time on the Ranger. I had to do this so I could pull my fingers in my glove to warm them up in the 0 degree temp. I could not do this with any of my old foils and had to drop them first; they were much higher aspect ratio kites than these sheetable ones (unless it's an optical illusion as I didn't have anything bigger than the truck pulling 7.5M Mosquito).
The donkey dick on the Ranger was mega stiff. It looks like a screw holds in the swivel ball of the dick. Tighe, is there a way to change this to a more flexible in the cold donkey dick? Sooner or later it will probably break anyway is my guess.
ENJOY ........... Bill
........... BillBill, what I was getting at is more suited to the Frenzy and Access. I have a 10M Frenzy and it works for this one. I do remember reading that the Manta's high performance is gained by keeping the kite moving, as Steve reminded us. He aslo threw in some finer details to find the sweet spot in light wind. Keep at it!