Was the attempt made this week? If so how did it turn out? The idea of this has alot of locals over here nervous (and no its not jelousy).
My biggest worry in reading the post that described the trip was the idea of no boat support being replaced with a PLB which i assume is a personal inflateable life boat, or is it just a beacon? and then wait for a rescue from the coast gaurd. It sounds like the coast gaurd was notified, did they say "sure we would be happy to risk our lives and equipment to come out and save you and let the taxpayers fit the bill".
This seems to me like a horrible judgement call and very irresponsible, unless of course the coast gaurd was fully behind you and if so, why wouldn't they just be the support boat?
To me this is the equvilent of me coming to your local spot and doing unhooked tricks all day in front of the swiming area with no kite leash and just expecting the life guards to get my kite if i happen to miss a pass.
I also saw in the posting that the estimated time of completion was 3-4 hours and compared to a normal session. It is excruciating to hold a tack for 2 miles let alone 56( if you can keep your course) and going toeside will not offer relief, example: try riding a directional for 3-4 hours never jibing or switching your feet around, toeside is just as exhausting let alone trying to hold a speed of 20 miles an hour for that distance. not to mention open lake swell that will hinder you following your course and take power out of your kite, the swell is generally choppy and uncomfortable to ride in for extended periods of time.
Lastly, this is the worst time of year for consistant winds. July and August offer almost nothing except for frontal driven wind usualy accompanied by heavy storms. Lake Michigan esspecially gets pop up storms with southwest winds in these dog days of summer.
I am not trying to be an asshole but just conserned local who doesn't want kiting to be looked at in a negative fashion if this doesn't go well.
jens hanson
madison wi
lake michigan crossing
Moderator: MK
Hi Jens.
Thanks for the info. We haven't tried the crossing yet because of lack of winds. We weren't aware of the concerns for the locals. Since the event has been publicized for a while, we assumed that the locals were ok with it because we didn't hear anything. We have a meeting at 4 today and I will bring this up for a go/no-go decision.
Here are some clarifications on the earlier post:
The PLB are personal locator beacons. That's our last safety net. We activate them in case everything else goes wrong. We don't want to waste the tax payers money cause we are tax payers also.
We have GPS aided navigation, and I set waypoints every 5 miles. Depending on the wind, I bulge the waypoints North or South. The intent is to sit and take a break at that time. With the waves, it might not be possible to "sit", but at least we could change tack for a bit. The last thing we want in the water is cramps and the breaks were intended to aleviate that.
The route that we plotted has us going downwind on a SW and that's what we try to watch for. We are thinking of attempting Sunday, but with a S wind, we might have to move our launch point.
We watch NOAA very closely and take the wind maps into account. The wind does change direction gradually as you go accross the lake and I try to take that into account when I put the waypoints. We watch the radar for storms, and we trend the winds and waves with the buoys.
Here is a some of what we have with us.
Wetsuits
Bow kites for flexibility
Helmets
GPS with waypoints every 5 miles
Personal Floation Device
Personal Locator Beacons
Day/Night flares
Camel packs with 2-3L of fluids
Power bars
Cell Phone in water proof bag (for when we reach the coast)
We also have a walkie talkie system built into one helmet, but I am not sure if we will use it
I understand that you are trying to protect your local access. We would do the same thing if the situation was reversed. I'll bring that up at our meeting today.
Last thing, Jens, could you give me a call? I'd like to talk to you since you seem to know the lake and the locals well. 612 two zero three 1105.
Denis
Thanks for the info. We haven't tried the crossing yet because of lack of winds. We weren't aware of the concerns for the locals. Since the event has been publicized for a while, we assumed that the locals were ok with it because we didn't hear anything. We have a meeting at 4 today and I will bring this up for a go/no-go decision.
Here are some clarifications on the earlier post:
The PLB are personal locator beacons. That's our last safety net. We activate them in case everything else goes wrong. We don't want to waste the tax payers money cause we are tax payers also.
We have GPS aided navigation, and I set waypoints every 5 miles. Depending on the wind, I bulge the waypoints North or South. The intent is to sit and take a break at that time. With the waves, it might not be possible to "sit", but at least we could change tack for a bit. The last thing we want in the water is cramps and the breaks were intended to aleviate that.
The route that we plotted has us going downwind on a SW and that's what we try to watch for. We are thinking of attempting Sunday, but with a S wind, we might have to move our launch point.
We watch NOAA very closely and take the wind maps into account. The wind does change direction gradually as you go accross the lake and I try to take that into account when I put the waypoints. We watch the radar for storms, and we trend the winds and waves with the buoys.
Here is a some of what we have with us.
Wetsuits
Bow kites for flexibility
Helmets
GPS with waypoints every 5 miles
Personal Floation Device
Personal Locator Beacons
Day/Night flares
Camel packs with 2-3L of fluids
Power bars
Cell Phone in water proof bag (for when we reach the coast)
We also have a walkie talkie system built into one helmet, but I am not sure if we will use it
I understand that you are trying to protect your local access. We would do the same thing if the situation was reversed. I'll bring that up at our meeting today.
Last thing, Jens, could you give me a call? I'd like to talk to you since you seem to know the lake and the locals well. 612 two zero three 1105.
Denis
(================P-</
Sponsored by Slingshot Kiteboarding
Sponsored by Slingshot Kiteboarding
I appreciate your views, even though they aren't reflecting a concern for our personal safety but rather a larger picture or local access issues. (which are legit)
Firstly, all my viewpoints to date are only mine and should not in any way reflect the views of the others on the trip.
Firstly I'd like many of you to open your minds a bit and think about kiteboarding as bit different than the loose, freestyle, activity that we all do at our nearby park (water). While that does define a lot of what the sport is, to say it is all that the sport is is foolish. Kites have been used for backcountry trips (no snowmobile support), trips to polar ice planes, etc etc. The only water crossings I know of have only been a test of physical endurance, but essentially have been the same sport we all do at our local watering hole. Not in any way trying to downplay the physical endurance that those riders went though. Many have been quite significant. This trip is very different in that we have to bring everything with us, and meet all the challenges ourselves.
I won't begin to list off the expeditions like this that have taken place around the world for centuries, going across great expanses, or into the unknown without back up. We are lucky now that when these kinds of journeys are undertaken, PLBs (personal Locator beacons) can be used. If something goes wrong, rescue personel are able to precisely track the PLB for 48hours, saving millions of dollars that would be spent if they had to seach an area to find them. The majority of times if the party has used their heads and prepared accordingly, the PLBs are never used. It is a last case resort.
I know your larger concern is about the image of Kiteboarding. I highly doubt if we get caught in the middle of an unpredicted storm and have to get recued or if one of us dies that it will effect the image of kiteboarding. Some may say we were stupid idiots ( sounds like that's started already) but I doubt it will hurt the image.
If you think we think this is like a Sunday ride in the park, you're definitely mistaken. I am planning on this being one of the most stenuous things I have ever done. The winter crossings that I have done have been intense and they've only been far less than 2 hours. Part of the draw is to test my limits...dah!
sorry if I sound pissy. I read this when I was half way through my morning coffee. Is this the kind of criticism, explorers of any kind get when the plan to leave the security blankets we've created and head into less chartered waters? I guess I'm going to stay quiet about the next journey I've been planning.
If you really have issues with this, and or if you have something valuable to offer, I can be reached at 920.982.3350
Firstly, all my viewpoints to date are only mine and should not in any way reflect the views of the others on the trip.
Firstly I'd like many of you to open your minds a bit and think about kiteboarding as bit different than the loose, freestyle, activity that we all do at our nearby park (water). While that does define a lot of what the sport is, to say it is all that the sport is is foolish. Kites have been used for backcountry trips (no snowmobile support), trips to polar ice planes, etc etc. The only water crossings I know of have only been a test of physical endurance, but essentially have been the same sport we all do at our local watering hole. Not in any way trying to downplay the physical endurance that those riders went though. Many have been quite significant. This trip is very different in that we have to bring everything with us, and meet all the challenges ourselves.
I won't begin to list off the expeditions like this that have taken place around the world for centuries, going across great expanses, or into the unknown without back up. We are lucky now that when these kinds of journeys are undertaken, PLBs (personal Locator beacons) can be used. If something goes wrong, rescue personel are able to precisely track the PLB for 48hours, saving millions of dollars that would be spent if they had to seach an area to find them. The majority of times if the party has used their heads and prepared accordingly, the PLBs are never used. It is a last case resort.
I know your larger concern is about the image of Kiteboarding. I highly doubt if we get caught in the middle of an unpredicted storm and have to get recued or if one of us dies that it will effect the image of kiteboarding. Some may say we were stupid idiots ( sounds like that's started already) but I doubt it will hurt the image.
If you think we think this is like a Sunday ride in the park, you're definitely mistaken. I am planning on this being one of the most stenuous things I have ever done. The winter crossings that I have done have been intense and they've only been far less than 2 hours. Part of the draw is to test my limits...dah!
sorry if I sound pissy. I read this when I was half way through my morning coffee. Is this the kind of criticism, explorers of any kind get when the plan to leave the security blankets we've created and head into less chartered waters? I guess I'm going to stay quiet about the next journey I've been planning.
If you really have issues with this, and or if you have something valuable to offer, I can be reached at 920.982.3350
Tighe
-
steveb
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:31 pm
- Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
Probably all direct quotes from Arnaud de Rosney.
The main issue is your friends are concerned about your safety, my main concern is the warm/cold front storms that happen on large bodies of cold water in summer. They are not forcasted and happen fast.
On Milly in the history of fleet 8 we've had water spouts, tornados and straight line winds come from no where, not forcasted, and that's just on Milly.
The main issue is your friends are concerned about your safety, my main concern is the warm/cold front storms that happen on large bodies of cold water in summer. They are not forcasted and happen fast.
On Milly in the history of fleet 8 we've had water spouts, tornados and straight line winds come from no where, not forcasted, and that's just on Milly.
Regional Ozone Team rider
I'm getting from most people that the safety issue is the main part in question, but I do have to agree with Tighe on this that if Tighe and Dennis are willing to stick it out there and try something like this, well maybe it's should be more power to them. Myself I have always thought of doing a crossing from Playa to Cozumel, but everyone I talk to think it's just suicide, maybe it is but maybe it's not and it's just something I would like to try? But then when you really think about it if something happens then it happens I guess, why not just try?
North Regional Rider.
Ride til it hurts!!!!
Ride til it hurts!!!!
Jens, you certainly have a right to express your concern (which I'm sure many others share), but this seems a little too harsh. Yeah, they are taking a significant risk but not directly endangering civilians as your example seems to suggest. Tighe and Denis are very responsible riders as our local community can vouch and you will find out if you talk to them. Hopefully you will take up their offer to discuss further.To me this is the equvilent of me coming to your local spot and doing unhooked tricks all day in front of the swiming area with no kite leash and just expecting the life guards to get my kite if i happen to miss a pass.
Mark F
-
Dean Rizer
- Posts: 319
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:52 pm
I wonder if I have the skill and courage to cross to the island, to climb that mountian, to take that calculated risk? Isn't that the curiosity and excitement that drives most of us involved in these sports. If others aren't endangered and you have carefully planned for the unexpected, which of course you haven't. Then do it! The only problem here seems to be the advanced notification. Tell us about it after you have completed your quest. God's speed!!
Well if they have enough taxpayer money left over after this fat bastarted.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289590,00.html
Then I'm sure saving Denis and Tighe would be like a drop in the bucket.
I couldn't resist!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289590,00.html
Then I'm sure saving Denis and Tighe would be like a drop in the bucket.
I couldn't resist!
The real pro isnt the one who doesn't make a mistake. The real pro is the one that does the best job hiding it!
-
Rookie Renstrom
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:49 am
- Location: Hudson WI
Hey Boys, Good luck to you guys, enjoy the journey. No regrets. Fear isnt always a bad thing, sometimes it keeps us alive. May the wind gods be on your side!! Good Luck!!.
Gary ~
( But if something were to happen, can I have your jet ski Tighe? I would of asked for the van, but it has all of those %$#@ stickers all over it!)
Gary ~
( But if something were to happen, can I have your jet ski Tighe? I would of asked for the van, but it has all of those %$#@ stickers all over it!)
Wow!
Back in February of this year, I was thinking about whether anyone had crossed Lake Michigan.
In April, I started looking online about it, and hit up some of the forums.
In May, to handle all of the e-mails (I just checked: 1063 of them) and questions and "Hey! How do I join?"'s, I set up an e-mail account separate from my personal one and created my first blog.
In June, I wanted to see who really was interested. Only Tighe and Denis responded, helped, and stayed in contact throughout the month.
In July, the three of us conference-called weekly to work on details.
I tried to keep the blog up to date (didn't do a very thorough job, my apologies for those who like to read such things...), and continued postings to other web kb forums to keep the idea in people's minds. We need all the best ideas we can get so we have more to choose from on how to tackle what hasn't been done before.
We agreed on a tentative date early on so as to have back up time & allow for back up planning.
["Beep, Beep, Beep..." (That's us backing up, by the way...)]
I have really come to appreciate all of the advice, honesty and concern, (even though the Chicago forum is closer and the one I post to most often, I drop by here once in a while to see what's up...) you all share here. You folks obviously care a lot about Tighe, Denis and the sport.
You are also more open on this forum, from what I can gather.
Everyone has an opinion.
Everyone has views.
That's great!
The more, the better.
I don't have to always like how they are presented, and vice versa. But, what really comes through here, versus, say Seattle KB Forum or FLKA or Chicago Kiteboarding is: you care.
Thank you for your well wishes.
Thank you for your advice.
There's a good 6 weeks or more before things start to get too cold to want to try this, so anyone with an idea or input, let Tighe or Denis know, or zap me an e-mail.
Chaz
chaz@xlakemi.com
[/u]
In April, I started looking online about it, and hit up some of the forums.
In May, to handle all of the e-mails (I just checked: 1063 of them) and questions and "Hey! How do I join?"'s, I set up an e-mail account separate from my personal one and created my first blog.
In June, I wanted to see who really was interested. Only Tighe and Denis responded, helped, and stayed in contact throughout the month.
In July, the three of us conference-called weekly to work on details.
I tried to keep the blog up to date (didn't do a very thorough job, my apologies for those who like to read such things...), and continued postings to other web kb forums to keep the idea in people's minds. We need all the best ideas we can get so we have more to choose from on how to tackle what hasn't been done before.
We agreed on a tentative date early on so as to have back up time & allow for back up planning.
["Beep, Beep, Beep..." (That's us backing up, by the way...)
]I have really come to appreciate all of the advice, honesty and concern, (even though the Chicago forum is closer and the one I post to most often, I drop by here once in a while to see what's up...) you all share here. You folks obviously care a lot about Tighe, Denis and the sport.
You are also more open on this forum, from what I can gather.
Everyone has an opinion.
Everyone has views.
That's great!
The more, the better.
I don't have to always like how they are presented, and vice versa. But, what really comes through here, versus, say Seattle KB Forum or FLKA or Chicago Kiteboarding is: you care.
Thank you for your well wishes.
Thank you for your advice.
There's a good 6 weeks or more before things start to get too cold to want to try this, so anyone with an idea or input, let Tighe or Denis know, or zap me an e-mail.
Chaz
chaz@xlakemi.com
[/u]
-
freejoshua7
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:07 pm
I draw a comparison to Mt. Hood. People love that mountain, they use it all year for many purposes. People hike on it all the time. But a hand full of daring adventurers try to get to the summit in the middle of winter. And some of them get stuck, sometimes they die.
Its a risk they take, and are rewarded for it.
When a climber dies no one says that Mt. Hood should be restricted all the time. No one says that Mt. Climbing should be banned. I believe the same holds true for kiting on the big lakes.
If something unfortunate should happen, there will be those that say it was an activity of stupidity and foolishness. I for one will praise it as heroism and bravery. And your names will live on in me as legend.
It might even persuade me to put the boom down and go fly a kite.
Its a risk they take, and are rewarded for it.
When a climber dies no one says that Mt. Hood should be restricted all the time. No one says that Mt. Climbing should be banned. I believe the same holds true for kiting on the big lakes.
If something unfortunate should happen, there will be those that say it was an activity of stupidity and foolishness. I for one will praise it as heroism and bravery. And your names will live on in me as legend.
It might even persuade me to put the boom down and go fly a kite.
Actually, I've heard many people say exactly that. I've also heard people say that mankind should not explore space after Columbia broke up on reentry. Same thing after the Challenger exploded. Where there's risk, there are always those who want to stay far away from it. I believe you guys know exactly what you are getting into. That's why there are only three of you who are willing to attempt it. Just make sure that if things go wrong, it doesn't become one of those media circuses like the Mt Hood spectacle.When a climber dies no one says that Mt. Hood should be restricted all the time. No one says that Mt. Climbing should be banned.
Is it out of the question to have a good sized support boat follow you? Is it mostly a money issue? The boat could keep you all on track. Someone out there has got to have a good sized cruiser. Put together a gas fund and there you go! Get some of these local kite shops to sponsor you. It would definitely be cool to have a video documentary of the crossing....
Good luck and godspeed.
Travis