biased opinion to follow:
looking beyond the massive marketing of some brands, i've learned of 2 big advantages of bows compared to some of the hybrids and sle's.
bows generally relaunch better.
bows generally have more usable range.
it's not as clear cut as it seems to be in my opinion. to be clear though, i think most everyone makes a good kite. some fit riders styles better than others though.
last week during the nuking 3 days in madison, i rode cabs and slingshots.
cab CB 2 12m, 9m...ss TD 2 9m and 11m. the TD 2 is a great kite and has all the features i like in the cab CB 2's. Jumps are huge and the range is very impressive. the TD 2's are spot on right this time through.
the last day it was 25-35. i inflated an 8m SB 2. This is Cabrinhas no pulley kite with light bar pressure and direct feel. other companies have similar kites.
wow...that kite sucked big time in really gusty overpowered conditions. i didn't like the 8m SB 2 at all in those winds. the day before i rode the 10m SB 2 and it was heaven, but steadier winds. i now understand what a friend of mine means about his 9m waroo. in upper wind ranges, that kite is a huge handful. i came in right away and i had a 7m omega out on demo and rode that puppy. yea boy...what a world of difference. handled the gusts with ease and what a fun kite in those winds.
i took some video of jens riding that day. just finished i up. http://www.kiteridersllc.com/bob/jens.mov
tighe. hope you don't mind the post. not trying to promote, but to show how kites like the TD 2's, omegas, CB 2 and the like really perform well in gusty midwest conditions.
some of the other style kites just don't have the range and relaunch capabilities.
hope this helps.
quick review: The 11m Turbo Diesel 2 is *the* kite
Moderator: MK
-
toyletbowl
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:19 pm
- Location: madison ,wi...planet earth
Tighe,
In my experience CB's & SB's are super easy relaunch. Never flown the 2's though. Might depend on bar set up. I believe the SB2 can be set up 1/1 or 2/1 like the Omega. 2/1 is going to give you more leverage on the back lines for relaunch, if you pull bar all the way in, when pulling rear line.
Bob, probably has more hands on experience.
In my experience CB's & SB's are super easy relaunch. Never flown the 2's though. Might depend on bar set up. I believe the SB2 can be set up 1/1 or 2/1 like the Omega. 2/1 is going to give you more leverage on the back lines for relaunch, if you pull bar all the way in, when pulling rear line.
Bob, probably has more hands on experience.
-
steveb
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:31 pm
- Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
I'm afraid I have to disagree a little. SLEs like bows come in all kinds of configurations and all kinds of performance.
I agree that good bows are gust eaters and have great relaunch, rode them for years and loved them.
The Ozones are an SLE/Hybrid that has all the range of my cabs. I would say the 13 and 11m sport may have more range than their equivalent 12/xbow and 14 contra. But they're a slightly different design and the 5 line sytem with the 2 to 1 sheeting ( for every inch you depower the front lines it depowers the 5th line 2 inches) on the center lines stabilizes the leading edge so the kite doesn't get unruly in the big gusts.
I'm just trying to differentiate from large general statements, the Norths too have a 5 line setup but I haven't tried them, the waroo is not all SLE /hybrid kites.
There's no doubt the contra/xbow relaunch a little easier than the 15m sport but not the 13/11 and smaller ones. The 15 relaunches easy, it just requires a little more coaxing in the really light stuff. Once there's a steady 12mph it's off the water just as fast as a cab. So the only thing I'd agree totally with is sub 10 mph the bows in general do launch the best. But depower range is more kite specific. I know from when I rode and Ocean Rodeo One it had no where near the range , but man did that kite fly and boost fast.
The Ozone Edge does not have the depower, but the power it puts out and the air it gets is scary. The Ozone Light has more depower than any kite I've ever ridden,and an ability to stay in one spot in a totally depowered state, which is why it's becoming a very popular wave kite.
It's down to the design, shape, bridal/ leading edge support, wing tip shape, number of lines, aspect etc. etc. I've learned they're all different and the terms bow, sle, hybrid just tells a little about the shape of the kite, it's trailing edge ( cupped or not) and wether there are pulleys or not.
It's flying characteristics can still be very varied.
I agree that good bows are gust eaters and have great relaunch, rode them for years and loved them.
The Ozones are an SLE/Hybrid that has all the range of my cabs. I would say the 13 and 11m sport may have more range than their equivalent 12/xbow and 14 contra. But they're a slightly different design and the 5 line sytem with the 2 to 1 sheeting ( for every inch you depower the front lines it depowers the 5th line 2 inches) on the center lines stabilizes the leading edge so the kite doesn't get unruly in the big gusts.
I'm just trying to differentiate from large general statements, the Norths too have a 5 line setup but I haven't tried them, the waroo is not all SLE /hybrid kites.
There's no doubt the contra/xbow relaunch a little easier than the 15m sport but not the 13/11 and smaller ones. The 15 relaunches easy, it just requires a little more coaxing in the really light stuff. Once there's a steady 12mph it's off the water just as fast as a cab. So the only thing I'd agree totally with is sub 10 mph the bows in general do launch the best. But depower range is more kite specific. I know from when I rode and Ocean Rodeo One it had no where near the range , but man did that kite fly and boost fast.
The Ozone Edge does not have the depower, but the power it puts out and the air it gets is scary. The Ozone Light has more depower than any kite I've ever ridden,and an ability to stay in one spot in a totally depowered state, which is why it's becoming a very popular wave kite.
It's down to the design, shape, bridal/ leading edge support, wing tip shape, number of lines, aspect etc. etc. I've learned they're all different and the terms bow, sle, hybrid just tells a little about the shape of the kite, it's trailing edge ( cupped or not) and wether there are pulleys or not.
It's flying characteristics can still be very varied.
Regional Ozone Team rider
-
toyletbowl
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:19 pm
- Location: madison ,wi...planet earth
Tom L...I rode the omega in 2-1 only that day. it was cool though to ride the SB 2 in 1-1 then go to the Omega in 2-1. BTW...SB 2 is 1-1 only. The Omega is the only one that can be changed between the 2.
funny thing is both the SB 2 in 1-1 and CB 2 in 2-1 relaunch really easy.
Tighe...All the cabrinhas are true bows except the Omega may not. Not 100% sure on that one. I might have to see if there's a Bruno sticker on the kite.
Steve...It's all good that you disagree a little. I'm actually an Ozone dealer btw, but just don't do much with them. just don't get any service from the local rep. Never did with Cabrinha and now Ozone. Oh well. Anyway...I think the relaunch in lighter winds is a valid point. When you can feel pull in the kite and it won't roll over, that is when riders are getting spoiled with the ease of relaunch of bows. I'm also not a big fan of 5th lines ...yet... It's a personal preference thing mroe than anything and who knows...I might change.
I can't speak for the ozone's range, but the waroo's for sure do not have the same upper wind range and control in those winds like the CB 2, Omega, Contra and TD 2's. The SB 2 has less range...similar to the waroo's.
Hope this helps.
bob
funny thing is both the SB 2 in 1-1 and CB 2 in 2-1 relaunch really easy.
Tighe...All the cabrinhas are true bows except the Omega may not. Not 100% sure on that one. I might have to see if there's a Bruno sticker on the kite.
Steve...It's all good that you disagree a little. I'm actually an Ozone dealer btw, but just don't do much with them. just don't get any service from the local rep. Never did with Cabrinha and now Ozone. Oh well. Anyway...I think the relaunch in lighter winds is a valid point. When you can feel pull in the kite and it won't roll over, that is when riders are getting spoiled with the ease of relaunch of bows. I'm also not a big fan of 5th lines ...yet... It's a personal preference thing mroe than anything and who knows...I might change.
I can't speak for the ozone's range, but the waroo's for sure do not have the same upper wind range and control in those winds like the CB 2, Omega, Contra and TD 2's. The SB 2 has less range...similar to the waroo's.
Hope this helps.
bob
bob
kiteridersllc.com
madtown, wi. usa
planet earth.
kiteridersllc.com
madtown, wi. usa
planet earth.
-
steveb
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:31 pm
- Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
Bummer the rep doesn't look after you, I guess you could go direct to Brian and Heather and tell them you want his commision as a discount.
You should get one in and try it, give it some time though, they fly so differently it took me a little while to get used to the kites. The bar preassures very light so at first you feel as though there's little kite position feedback. But once your senses recalibrate you get the same feedback and you know where the kite is . But it spoils kites with blocks for you, you jump on them and would swear somethings broken.
You should get one in and try it, give it some time though, they fly so differently it took me a little while to get used to the kites. The bar preassures very light so at first you feel as though there's little kite position feedback. But once your senses recalibrate you get the same feedback and you know where the kite is . But it spoils kites with blocks for you, you jump on them and would swear somethings broken.
Regional Ozone Team rider
-
toyletbowl
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:19 pm
- Location: madison ,wi...planet earth
steve,
i'd agree on the light bar pressure. it takes time to get used to the feeling. the SB 2 has super light pressure and the kite took some time to get used to for jumping. it's great on the arms, but the light pressure sometimes also gives a false negative to low end grunt and pull. once riders understand the bar pressure and how to adjust, the kites rock.
the commission thing might be a great idea, but i'm set with some really good companies right now.
any wind up there this week?
our 20-30 for today was downgraded to rain and 10-20.
i'd agree on the light bar pressure. it takes time to get used to the feeling. the SB 2 has super light pressure and the kite took some time to get used to for jumping. it's great on the arms, but the light pressure sometimes also gives a false negative to low end grunt and pull. once riders understand the bar pressure and how to adjust, the kites rock.
the commission thing might be a great idea, but i'm set with some really good companies right now.
any wind up there this week?
our 20-30 for today was downgraded to rain and 10-20.
bob
kiteridersllc.com
madtown, wi. usa
planet earth.
kiteridersllc.com
madtown, wi. usa
planet earth.
sb2
I have flown the 14m SB2 for 20+ sessions and have grown to love the kite for my riding style. I also share a 14 warroo with Heather and have a fair amount of time on both kites.
At least in the 14m range I have to disagree that it doesnt have the huge upper wind range. We had a day in Padre where I took the 14 out and the wind cranked in the upper 20's with gusts Im thinking had to touch 30. The kite never treated me badly even though I had the bar all the way out and could barely keep my board on the water I still was able to come back up wind and get a smaller kite. My only issue with the 14m SB2 is its a little doggy/slow when underpowered - actually I like the kite overpowered. The SB2 is generally a slow moving kite and has proven to be very foregiving for the way I ride.
The TD2 was very impressive for my short ride time and the things I didnt like about the first TD were not apparent in the TD2. From my short time in the sport I think it will be a great kite for those who like that type of bar pressure/feel the kite delivers
Still looking forward to a chance to fly the ozones, Ocean Rodeo's and GKs
At least in the 14m range I have to disagree that it doesnt have the huge upper wind range. We had a day in Padre where I took the 14 out and the wind cranked in the upper 20's with gusts Im thinking had to touch 30. The kite never treated me badly even though I had the bar all the way out and could barely keep my board on the water I still was able to come back up wind and get a smaller kite. My only issue with the 14m SB2 is its a little doggy/slow when underpowered - actually I like the kite overpowered. The SB2 is generally a slow moving kite and has proven to be very foregiving for the way I ride.
The TD2 was very impressive for my short ride time and the things I didnt like about the first TD were not apparent in the TD2. From my short time in the sport I think it will be a great kite for those who like that type of bar pressure/feel the kite delivers
Still looking forward to a chance to fly the ozones, Ocean Rodeo's and GKs
-
steveb
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:31 pm
- Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
