need a new kite. opinions welcome.

[newms]

I started kiting last winter on a foil and now want to continue this thrill into the warmer months.

At this time and can only swing 1 kite and 1 board and am considering only bows/hybrids. So basically a 1 kite quiver for my 175Lbs in the majority of conditions we have locally. I have no experience wakeboarding or snowboarding, so this aspect in addition to general inflatable handling will be new to me.

In addition to the immensely popular Waroo i am considering the following used or demo kites to save a few $$$:
2006 GK sonic 11M or 14M
2006 WindWing Rapture II 12M
2007 WindWing Rampage II 9.5M or 12M
2006 Liquid force Assault 12M

I have no real idea about boards except that the Liquid Force Proof 151, Liquid force mission 144 and Slingshot Glide have been recommended.

any recommendations or comments good or bad about any of these options are greatly appreciated.

[drknap]

You are right in considering a bow/sle-especially for MN. Take note that most, including myself, tend to promote the gear they are riding and familiar with. But there are a lot of good kites from many companies to choose from. You should try to fly as many kites as possible and be your own judge-although this is difficult to do. If your interested in talking more about a waroo let me know. I'd likely be able to get you up on one of mine for a demo. kurtwalstrom@yahoo.com

[ice_kmauve]

My kiting career on water really took off when my WW Rapture I (12m) got ripped off and I bought a 12m Waroo. I think the Waroo, being faster, lighter and flatter just had more low end and also was very comforting as it depowered so much nicer in the gusts (I'd been using a 17m C-kite previously). The "faster" part matters a great deal, since in lower winds you can gain a lot of power by diving the kite through the window repeatedly, which is hard to do if the kite is too slow.

All the kites you list seem like good bets, except the Ramp 9.5 I would guess would be too small for most MN winds.

And I don't know how the Rapture II is, but I know my rapture I 12m was too small during the 3-4 sessions I had on it, and it relaunched like crap.

gl

[SCOTT RIDOUT]

The new and 2006 Assaults from Liquid Force are awesome kites I have both the 2006 and 2007 16m's it's pretty much an all around kite both a light wind kite and a high wind kite. The depower is just what it says 100% when you need it and no inversions 100%, I've tried with the 2006 and 2007's and I have not been able to do it yet! Also you might look at the Havocs, I have the 2007 12m Havoc and the kite is truly a cross between the old "C" style and a bow, the kite really generates a ton of power, and as you can guess it depowers 100% also just like a bow, the only thing that I am getting used to is the bar pressure, it has NONE which to me is really strange but I'll get used to it. I have them along with the 144 Mission and the new 2007 151 Proof boards, just find me on the beach or wherever and I would be glad to give you a run down on them both. I also have a Liquid Force 6' surfboard coming soon too, I can't wait to get that either!

[Dave Z]

If you're new to water and looking for a kite with easy relaunch (i.e. beginner friendly) I would cross the WindWing Rapture 2 12 off your list. I rode the '06 most of the winter of 05/06. It was a great kite but even on snow with the LE down it did not relaunch very easily. I ended up switching over to the Cabrinha Crossbows - great kite if you can find a deal on a used one.

[Denis]

For boards, the SS glide would get you going in very little wind. That helps when you are starting cause you don't want to go super juiced. But when the chop kicks up, you might want a stiffer board. The bigger SX in general make very good starter boards and follows your progression to intermediate. For your weight, a 147 would work. i haven't tried the LF proof or mission yet.

[Tighe]

If you're looking for one kite to work in the greatest range, I'd look at the first generation bows. They had the greatest range of any kites out there. Then the companies realized they were selling a lot less kites. The second generation bows are much more stable but don't have quite the same range.

Good first generation bows are Slingshot Turbo Diesels, Cabrinha Crossbows, Ocean Rodeo One, GK Sonic, etc. 12-14m will probably do you for 90% of our days. To get the most out of these kites also look for a bit larger board. The sooner you can get on a plane the faster you'll be loving life. Apparent wind is your friend with these fast flyers.

There are used second generation bows and hybrids out there already. They are easier and more stable. Just expect days when you'll be sidelined cause your kite is either too big or too small. Then again, you'll be so hooked you'll be selling your dog to fill out your quiver.

hope that helps.

[avery]

I crash a lot the Waroo launches fast and easy in deep water.

I have flown a 7, 12, 16 m Waroo of 2006 all great kites. The 2007 Fly even better.

If you are thinking about a 1 kite quiver I would get a 11, 12, or 13m kite for your first. And plan to get a larger 15,16, or 17m as time goes on. I would stay away from a Kite that would fit in between those two size combos. You will always be longing for a 2 kite quiver later in life.

[Chris B]

Best makes one of the best beginner/intermediate kites on the market. If you do decide to get one I would not get one online or used because we have had a lot of kites have Leading Edges or panels blowout (06 and 07). If you get it from Scuba and you have a problem you won’t have to pay for shipping and you will get your kite back faster. Every kite that I know of has been replaced.

The best advice I can say is make sure to fly more than one kite and don’t buy it unless you have flown it.

People to talk to and fly the gear.

Slingshot; Fuel, Link, TD, SX, Glide, Misfit, Fuse
Tighe, Denis, Chris

Best; Waroo
Avery, Kurt

Liquid Force; ?
Scott

Ozone: Instinct
Steve

[steveb]

Last year GK had some sort of retrofit on the center line adjusters. Their original system had a problem which made it almost impossible to adjust while riding,so you'd want to make sure you get the upgrade.
The other kites you mention are all good, as Chris said the Bests have been going boom a little so best to go through your local dealer. Apart from that they seem very nice and people like them.
I know Scott likes the Liquid forces, so truthfully today there's no bad kites.
I got some good time on the Ozones Instinct sports in Padre, I'm biased as I ride for Ozone, but I'm very happy with their performance and behaviour. Light bar preassure ,fast turning and very stable. The Ozone Light which makes for a good first kite ( and 2nd and 3rd etc.) is actually a little cheaper than the Best, only problems the 12m is the biggest.
With a 06/07 kite it will be hard to be disapointed.

[newms]

Thanks everyone for your input. At least I know i'm in the ballpark

a couple of more questions if i may.

1. What would you estimate our typical kiting wind range to be: 8-20, 12-25, 15-30... from my years of scow sailing on WBL i would estimate 8-20

2. At what minimum wind speed do you realistically consider going out, staying upwind and generally having a good ride?

3. When selecting which kite to use for a day do you base it off of average high wind speed, or max gusts?

[steveb]

10 to 20 is most of our summer wind. With the right board it's possible to kite from 10 mph. Of course the problem around here is our wind variation as it can be gusty, So 10mph is lulls in the 5mph range ( kite falls out of the sky) and gusts to 15mph.
Bows/SLE?hybrids are very popular around here as they have the range to handle our gusty winds.To be honest all of them fly, relaunch and look after you very well. The rest of the choice is taste and the type of rider you think you'll be.
For your weight a bread and butter kites going to be in the 12 to 14m range. You may want to consider 2 boards a longer wide 140cm to 155 cm board with little or no rocker and a 130 to 140 cm board with more rocker and a slashy shape for the higher winds.
If you really get into it you'll end up with a 9m kite as well to take you out in winds from 22mph to 30 mph. 2 kites, 2 boards is what most of us have as a quiver these days.

[Chris B]

What type of rider do you think you will be?

Weekend cruiser

Big air specialist

Wake/unhooked/big jumper

[newms]

Realistically I'll just be a weekend cruiser although I have dreams of much more.

I suspect most of my riding will be on WBL. provided I can find enough newbie leeway to launch and land.
I imagine for me that water kiting will be must less acccesable the snow kiting. Not only due to beach congestion but also family time. In the Winter the family was happily cocooned for a few months so I could sneek out 3+ times a week. I'm guessing 1 weekend session and possibly 1 evening session.

[Chris B]

To be honest White Bear is a lake we might have problems with this year. The place looks innocent but it’s a death trap waiting to happen because of all the people, boats concrete walls, signs, lifeguard stands, wind conditions on anything but a SE (which is directly onshore), buildings, ext... There is absolutely no room for error for Launching at Ramsey. People are going to have to put there foot down if they see someone that is not an intermediate or advance kiter. With bow kites people read 100% de-power and they think it’s not dangerous (which is a complete stretch of the truth). Anyway, I’m going off on a tangent which is going to be a thread here as soon as people start showing up at the beach.

Kites I would look into are

Slingshot: 12 or 14 TD or the 12 Link

Ozone: Instinct

I’m not trying to be a dink but we have had 5 Waroos have major blowouts for no apparent reason locally. They are a very stable kite so if you are interested make sure you get a confirmation on there warrantee. I know people like them.

I don’t want to froget about Liquid Force but I have never flown there kite so I can’t comment.

There are other companies that make great kites but I would support the companies putting money into the community. You also get to ride the stuff before you buy it which is the most important.

It pains me not to recommend the Fuel, but it is my favorite kite.

Good luck on the kiting this summer it will change your life!

[newms]

Thanks Chris.

your warnings about are well taken and much of the reason i believe this sport is less accesable. I have a small advantage on WBL in that I have relatives and friends on the lake that will allow me to use thier beaches as private launch sites providing the wind is correct. If the water level keeps dropping as it did last year then all the better, possibly 300 yards of isolated beach will be exposed.

I'd love to support local business and usually do but this time around I'm purchasing used equipment where I can to get my foot in the door. I usually demo before I buy but in this case it is not realistic.

I made an impulse buy on a 2005 RRD type Wave 10M. fifth-line C type kite with full depower. supposed to be fast and stable and good for 20-35+. I'll use it as a trainer in 12MPH to body drag, and once I get comfortable in riding break it out on higher wind days. It has zippers that supposedly reduce leach tension/power making fly like an 8M. Anyways for $50 if it does not work out I'll sell it or use it to haul leaves this fall.

If I were to buy new, my first choice would be the Instinct Sport 13M followed by the Eclipse Chameleon based on web reviews only.

For now, based upon price, reviews, potential wind range, ease of use, safety features I am going to get the Liquid Force Assault 12M.

Jeff

[thenamessean04]

I have a 13m Ozone Instinct that you are more than welcome to take a test drive of when I get home in 2 ish weeks!

[RandyL]

I assume I'm chatting with Jeff? If so how have you been? It's Randy Lindorff (Ed Cox's Buddy) it seems like we are usually getting in to a new sport around the same time. I also just started this winter. I assume you are describing launching around Ed's beach, which would be shallow for at least a couple hundred yards out.
I was fortunate enough to head down to Padre for a few days and take some lessons. By the end of the second day I thought I had it down, the winds were about 20mph and I was finally able to go upwind on my 11m Waroo. The third day I did not take a lesson because the winds were light and I figured if used my 16m TD I would be fine. Wrong!! I felt like I forgot everything and I was not able to stay up wind at all due to different wind conditions. I had to do a long walk of shame and it wasn't the kite it was the Kiter.
The experience made me realize I need more room then we have on WBL to account for changing conditions during my learning process.
I plan on spending some time on Milacs for a while even though I live on WBL. If you ever want to go give me a call. At this point I like both of my kites.

[tyson]

newms--

i started kiting only earlier last year, but i've gotten a handful of rides on WBL

launch aside, i don't think it's a very good lake to start out on. i had my very first water session on there, and thank god it was a cold spring; nobody else was out on the lake when i was. granted, i hadn't taken any lessons, but you need LOTS of room when you're starting out on the water.

even if you have a perfect launch, that lake (ESPECIALLY as it starts warming up) has tons of traffic on it. last summer we had an experienced windsurfer get run over by a boat. not cool. there's so much traffic and until you develop good board skills to handle the insane gustiness of that lake, i'd recommend riding wac or milly.

the assault should be sweet

[steveb]

Really you should watch for the southerlies and south westerlies and make the pilgrimage to Mille Lacs, Malmo and reddy beaches. They have safe access, shallow water and safe launches.
While you're learning you would benefit from the presence of the more experienced riders to give tips and advise, you can gaurantee some of them will be at the Milly beaches.
Steve Hendrickson was learning to kite in SPI on a 13m sport, it really looked after him, easy relaunch, great safeties , and the kite stability meant he kept the kite in the air more than he dropped it.
As an experienced kiter I really like to 13m as while being stable it gives great performance as well.
Larry at scuba center has the liquid forces and the Ozones..., good luck choosing , I don't think you can go wrong with either kite.