Self Rescue/Landing Line Wrapping Techniques
Moderator: MK
Self Rescue/Landing Line Wrapping Techniques
With my old 5th line C kite I would let go of the bar completely releasing onto the 5th line until it hit the stopper.
Then I would pull the pull bar back using the 5th line and wrap the 5th line around the bar several times to lock it down and then continue wrapping all 5 lines together until I reached the kite.
The kite would stay depowered the whole time because the only pressure was on the 5th line.
Will this same tehnique work with the Turbo Diesel/ other bows using a released front line?
The other day I released onto the front line (let the bar slide to the stopper) and pulled all the way to the kite and then found the bar and started winding while at the kite. It seemed kind of messy... like swimming in spaghetti (really long stringy spaghetti!).
If the kite would stay safely depowered it seems cleaner to pull the released front line to the bar, wrap it to lock it down, then wrap all four lines together until you reach the kite.
Then again maybe I'm doing it all wrong! Any thoughts? Thanks!
Mark F
Then I would pull the pull bar back using the 5th line and wrap the 5th line around the bar several times to lock it down and then continue wrapping all 5 lines together until I reached the kite.
The kite would stay depowered the whole time because the only pressure was on the 5th line.
Will this same tehnique work with the Turbo Diesel/ other bows using a released front line?
The other day I released onto the front line (let the bar slide to the stopper) and pulled all the way to the kite and then found the bar and started winding while at the kite. It seemed kind of messy... like swimming in spaghetti (really long stringy spaghetti!).
If the kite would stay safely depowered it seems cleaner to pull the released front line to the bar, wrap it to lock it down, then wrap all four lines together until you reach the kite.
Then again maybe I'm doing it all wrong! Any thoughts? Thanks!
Mark F
disclaimer: this works for me, but maybe not for everyone
after kite is on the edge, top line grabbed and yanked and the kite is now leading edge down and starting to float downwind....(see other posts on this part)
1. pull in a few arm lengths of top line (better to pull more than less, less may allow the kite to flip a couple of times)
2. turn around and with the free hand I put the chicken loop on the boards grab handle (the line drag helps keep the board from floating off so fast and keeps the lines from going in/and out of each other)
3. work my way up the line(the one you have pulled a bunch in and should still be holding on to) to the kite
4. flip the kite over and clip my leash to the kite's attachment point
5. work back towards the board and bar avoiding lines with the kite attached to me.
6. disconnect the bar from the board and start wrapping
after kite is on the edge, top line grabbed and yanked and the kite is now leading edge down and starting to float downwind....(see other posts on this part)
1. pull in a few arm lengths of top line (better to pull more than less, less may allow the kite to flip a couple of times)
2. turn around and with the free hand I put the chicken loop on the boards grab handle (the line drag helps keep the board from floating off so fast and keeps the lines from going in/and out of each other)
3. work my way up the line(the one you have pulled a bunch in and should still be holding on to) to the kite
4. flip the kite over and clip my leash to the kite's attachment point
5. work back towards the board and bar avoiding lines with the kite attached to me.
6. disconnect the bar from the board and start wrapping
I'm looking forward to seeing more ideas in this thread. I'm looking for a more comfortable deep water rescue technique. I was taught to pull one line (usually the stopperball line - bow kites) toward me until I have the kite in hand. I leave the chicken loop and kite leash on so the bar doesn't sink. I DETEST the "swimming in spaghetti"!!! Sometimes I'm so wrapped up I can hardly tread water. I've had boats approach me when I'm down...my biggest fear is that they will get too close and get my lines tangled in their props...I hate to even think about what that could mean! I think I will try bar wrapping when I get to SPI. What does everyone else do?
i understand your fear of getting wrapped up but...
if you dump your kite to your left side and pull on the top line. the kite will start to drift down wind. while it is doing so swim to the right of the lines. the water may create enough drag that it keeps the lines out of your way while you work toward the kite and back to your bar.
as far as boats hitting your lines while doing so....i don't know.
being a guy and not that good looking I have never had a boat come close and see if I needed help. I once had a boat with two (psuedo-good looking) college girls flash me though on Lake Monona .
One time, i did keep the bar attached and pulled in enough line to kill the kite while it sat there. I had to specifically use the center line with the ring though. I pulled the end of line through itself (like a dog choke chain) so that I could attach it to the bar end and prewrapped enough till I could then wrap all the lines at the same time. I found it very cumbersome. I had put my leash on the board and was being dragged a bit at the same time and it felt a bit uncomfortable and like I could be dragged under at any time. Lines were goofed and it took a couple of beers to sort out.
if you dump your kite to your left side and pull on the top line. the kite will start to drift down wind. while it is doing so swim to the right of the lines. the water may create enough drag that it keeps the lines out of your way while you work toward the kite and back to your bar.
as far as boats hitting your lines while doing so....i don't know.
being a guy and not that good looking I have never had a boat come close and see if I needed help. I once had a boat with two (psuedo-good looking) college girls flash me though on Lake Monona .
One time, i did keep the bar attached and pulled in enough line to kill the kite while it sat there. I had to specifically use the center line with the ring though. I pulled the end of line through itself (like a dog choke chain) so that I could attach it to the bar end and prewrapped enough till I could then wrap all the lines at the same time. I found it very cumbersome. I had put my leash on the board and was being dragged a bit at the same time and it felt a bit uncomfortable and like I could be dragged under at any time. Lines were goofed and it took a couple of beers to sort out.
More on the TD self rescue, the safety leash
I have difficulty attaching my safety leash to the kite on the line with the stopper ball once the kite is flying. It's too far a reach, and I've had the kite stall, turn inside out, and crash while trying to pull the center lines down close enough so that I could clip on to the ring. Is there another way to do this?
Ok Ok, with an assisted launch I clip the leash in place before launching, no problem. But when I'm self launching I've found the dam leash gets twisted around the other lines during ascent if everything isn't perfectly aligned before letting the kite float away during the launch.
Today at Big Marine Lake in Washington Co I was launching my TD 12m with the leash in place in 20kt wind parallel to shore (second mistake). Sure enough, the leash got all wrapped around the lines and the kite immediately went into flipping, I completely lost control of it, and it proceeded to yank me in violent fits to the side AWAY from shore! Between dunkings I then released the leash (third mistake) thinking that would allow the lines to straighten and I could get control. As the lines were already severely twisted that had no effect. As I was now being dragged sideways out from shore I finally pulled the chicken loop release. The tumbling kite started it's 3 mile journey towards the northern shoreline.
Some yelling for help brought a fishing boat (I love those guys!) and I was able to recover both kite and board, and spagetti, with no prop damage, though it was a genuine hastle for the poor fisherman. No babes on the boat..
Is there a better way to connect the leash to the kite during self launch?
"Oh tis awe inspiring to see one's death before one's eyes.."
Eric Bro
Ok Ok, with an assisted launch I clip the leash in place before launching, no problem. But when I'm self launching I've found the dam leash gets twisted around the other lines during ascent if everything isn't perfectly aligned before letting the kite float away during the launch.
Today at Big Marine Lake in Washington Co I was launching my TD 12m with the leash in place in 20kt wind parallel to shore (second mistake). Sure enough, the leash got all wrapped around the lines and the kite immediately went into flipping, I completely lost control of it, and it proceeded to yank me in violent fits to the side AWAY from shore! Between dunkings I then released the leash (third mistake) thinking that would allow the lines to straighten and I could get control. As the lines were already severely twisted that had no effect. As I was now being dragged sideways out from shore I finally pulled the chicken loop release. The tumbling kite started it's 3 mile journey towards the northern shoreline.
Some yelling for help brought a fishing boat (I love those guys!) and I was able to recover both kite and board, and spagetti, with no prop damage, though it was a genuine hastle for the poor fisherman. No babes on the boat..
Is there a better way to connect the leash to the kite during self launch?
"Oh tis awe inspiring to see one's death before one's eyes.."
Eric Bro
Eric Bro:
Glad to hear you & kite are ok. I had a somewhat similar experience the very first time I flew a TD and had the leash attached to the "flagging ring" above the bar. The kite was down and in process of trying to re-launch I got the friggin' leash wrapped around the lines quickly creating a progressively worse mess. Rapid death spirals & twisting lines killed the effectiveness of the leash completely. I had to eject and chase kite with help from a fisherman (sound familiar?)!
(Note to self... eject IMMEDIATELY when kite doing death spirals. Save energy for long swim!)
If you are careful, I am told the flagging ring above the bar is the safest spot, but for me I am clumsy and MUCH prefer to attach to the ring below the bar on the very end of the chicken loop line.
This should mostly depower the kite, but to completely kill for self rescue I would need to reach for the flagging ring and pull by hand. I attached a very short red pig tail to help me see and grab the ring if (when) the sh$% hits the fan.
For me avoiding the risk of a tangle outweighs having to reach for the flagging ring. The leash attachment above the bar is just too awkward for me and is begging to get wrapped!
My 2 cents, I know others think differently and hopefully some safety experts will chime in on this and the great line wrapping debate. As of now I am leaning toward Klimber (pull all the way to kite, then wrap).
Mark F
Glad to hear you & kite are ok. I had a somewhat similar experience the very first time I flew a TD and had the leash attached to the "flagging ring" above the bar. The kite was down and in process of trying to re-launch I got the friggin' leash wrapped around the lines quickly creating a progressively worse mess. Rapid death spirals & twisting lines killed the effectiveness of the leash completely. I had to eject and chase kite with help from a fisherman (sound familiar?)!
(Note to self... eject IMMEDIATELY when kite doing death spirals. Save energy for long swim!)
If you are careful, I am told the flagging ring above the bar is the safest spot, but for me I am clumsy and MUCH prefer to attach to the ring below the bar on the very end of the chicken loop line.
This should mostly depower the kite, but to completely kill for self rescue I would need to reach for the flagging ring and pull by hand. I attached a very short red pig tail to help me see and grab the ring if (when) the sh$% hits the fan.
For me avoiding the risk of a tangle outweighs having to reach for the flagging ring. The leash attachment above the bar is just too awkward for me and is begging to get wrapped!
My 2 cents, I know others think differently and hopefully some safety experts will chime in on this and the great line wrapping debate. As of now I am leaning toward Klimber (pull all the way to kite, then wrap).
Mark F
personally, with the bow kites I don't ever see a reason for clipping into the centerline for safety. I am sure many will disagree but just as many will agree. The only time I have ever touched the centerline ring is to self land. With a TD bar you might even more depower than my crossbow. Can't you just clip to the depower end of the CL line?
And hopefully with out sounding like a jerk, if you are clipping to the centerline and selflaunching and flying a kite at the tops of its windrange you are asking for trouble.
And hopefully with out sounding like a jerk, if you are clipping to the centerline and selflaunching and flying a kite at the tops of its windrange you are asking for trouble.
I believe the TD Owner's Manual says to clip the leash to the center line ring. Bad "advice" in my opinion from SS. I prefer the end of the chicken loop line, but I don't think the owner's manual talks about this option? I am too lazy to get it from the garage and read it though! Hey, there is no Emoticon for lazy! What the?
Solution?
Nice Topic! I use an SS Surefire Bar with the spinning leash feature. It allows me to hook my "safety" to the center line loop without tangling & to release the c-loop at the press of a button. They cost over $100, but have saved my @$$ from many kitemares. I land my Waroos by reeling in the upper center line after landing on a tip. After it noses windward I wrap that tensioned center line several times to maintain tension and then start wrapping the other three. It works for me, as does pulling the kite all the way in and then dealing with the spagetti which usually gives me a giant rats nest & several minutes on-shore doing the de-tangle tango. JN
P.S: I've always had to marry the chick before she'll get in the boat!
P.S: I've always had to marry the chick before she'll get in the boat!
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After looking at the manual off the SS website, the original manual shows them ONLY clipping the safety leash to the depower end of the CL line.
later they ammended this with a one page jobby showing cliping into the centerlines ring....probably a CYA thing for the legality.
***in my opinion***
i'd stick to the original way and i think you may eliminate your original mess
if you are flying it in it's range you shouldn't have an issue
side ? JRN says he has to marry the chick before she gets in the boat...but what if she is already in the boat!?
later they ammended this with a one page jobby showing cliping into the centerlines ring....probably a CYA thing for the legality.
***in my opinion***
i'd stick to the original way and i think you may eliminate your original mess
if you are flying it in it's range you shouldn't have an issue
side ? JRN says he has to marry the chick before she gets in the boat...but what if she is already in the boat!?
Re: Solution?
[quote="JRN"]It allows me to hook my "safety" to the center line loop without tangling & to release the c-loop at the press of a button.
Jim
So did you put rings in one of the center lines of your waroo bar and line set as they don't come with them-at least mine did not.
I use technique as described above (edge of window and pull top power line) but I remain in the chicken loop. It's hard to reach the center line, particularly with the waroos. I pull the line like crazy and walk to the kite, getting there as soon as possible and flip it over. Walk up wind a bit and usually the lines float down wind and stay untangled. I then hook my leash through my board handle (to keep it from floating away) and onto the leading edge of kite. Let go of kite and board now (as there secured by leash) and start winding. Been successful latelty but I'm still very apprehensive about self landing.
Kurt
Jim
So did you put rings in one of the center lines of your waroo bar and line set as they don't come with them-at least mine did not.
I use technique as described above (edge of window and pull top power line) but I remain in the chicken loop. It's hard to reach the center line, particularly with the waroos. I pull the line like crazy and walk to the kite, getting there as soon as possible and flip it over. Walk up wind a bit and usually the lines float down wind and stay untangled. I then hook my leash through my board handle (to keep it from floating away) and onto the leading edge of kite. Let go of kite and board now (as there secured by leash) and start winding. Been successful latelty but I'm still very apprehensive about self landing.
Kurt
Waroo Bar Mod.
Yah, I put a smaller welded ring at the end of the sheeting strap, ran a front line through it, and then attached to a larger ring where I clip my leash. Its not pretty, but it works! JN P.S: Stevo, I'm on #3 & we bought the boat together, and the dock, and the house...