WBL or Waconia for newbies?

[drknap]

A whole lot of traffic and obstacles at WBL yesterday to negotiate. Makes me uneasy with my less than desirable up wind performance on a kite. Is waconia a better alternative for newbie kiters? On a south day such as today?
thanks
Kurt

[tyson]

yeah, waconia on a south wind makes for a sweet downwinder from the beach on the southside to the dnr access. though today be careful, theres a good chance thunderstorms so watch those fronts and dont pull a Franklin

[Chris B]

Anything is better then Ramsey Beach on White Bear for beginners. Ramsey is an Expert Launch only. All the nastiness on one beach; onshore winds, concrete walls, big rocks, posts, lifeguard towers, heavy boat traffic, parked boats, swimmers everywhere, can get very gusty, docks, ext. This is one of the worst launches for beginners; please it’s not worth the risk.

W, NW, E, Bellaire (make sure there are no swimmers down wind)

SW, S, NNE Waconia

S, SW, Malmo on Mile Lacs (best launch in the state)

[drknap]

Thanks for the tips.


"Ramsey is an Expert Launch only"

This makes me feel good because I actually made back and forth a couple of times yesterday without incident!

I might have to pull out the windsurfing gear if I can't get to a more kiter friendly beach. However, I doubt I'll be able to resist further temptation with a Kite at Ramsey.

Chris,
I get nervous watching you at Ramsey WBL and admire the your kite control confidence.

Kurt

[johntr]

As a windsurfer at Ramsey on Thursday, I found the crowd of kiters invigorating ... and crowded! I rested for a few minutes after one particularly adventurous run, and counted 7 kiters and 9 windsurfers. All of the wind sports folk were on the same back and forth tack, and the 7 kiters were taking up a lot of the space on this tack. It was just me on Thursday, but I would have been scared to have had my kids along on their boards.

I don't know what to do about this problem, but I do notice that kiters take up *a lot* of sailing space on the water. With 16 pole boarders the lake feels mostly empty. Half-and-half kiters and pole boarders, and it feels crowded.

John

[Randy]

I chose to windsurf yesterday, given the more advanced launch as defined by the reduced room for error. It would seem that kiters need to have at least 200' safety zone from downwind "civilians". This safety zone for "civilians" in the event of potential loss of control seems to be good for all of us to follow, and it seemed that there weren't too many times when it was violated. For Ramsey, it means solid solid upwind riding ability. Most of the kiters out yesterday had this. For the rest of us aspiring kiters, I'd suggest a try at launcing from the shallows just east of Bellaire.
Has anyone ever done this? I've frequently launched windsurfing from here on SE winds, enjoying the stronger wind in the gap before downwinding it to Ramsey.
Anyway, great stoke at the beach...so good to see everyone collaborating with one another, especially Judd copping free rides on the tip of my windsurfer....amazing....

[chg]

I was also one of the few wind surfers at Ramsey yesterday from 2-5.

I agree that kiters seem to need lots of room - this was the first time I found myself "worring" about "what ifs" out there

Of course what to do ??? it does seem like Ramsey is NOT a beginer beach on SE/E winds

[Tighe]

I'm glad everyone is so stoked from yesterday...and I am glad that nothing happened. I hate to be the party pooper but I agree with Chris. Ramsey is for experienced only riders. Those of you who ride there if you want to continue to ride there you need to monitor other riders. I was not there but heard some reports of less experienced riders. One rogue gust, a kite out of control, and a rider gets pulling into that wall...I can guarantee we will never kite on WBL again. Or worse an innocent swimmer somehow gets wrapped up in the lines of a kite that hindenburged and fell from the sky. We don't even want to consider what happens when that kite powers up.

I have been riding for 6 years. I am fairly experienced, and am constantly reminded of the curve balls the wind/weather can throw at you. Poop happens. Give yourself room to recover when, NOT IF, it does.

Please be careful.

[JRN]

I was kiting @ Ramsey on Thursday & Friday, & thought I was staying out of most windsurfers' way, but sometimes in order to avoid a tangle with one obstacle or another kiter, quick course changes are required. I felt I was getting good enough to kite Ramsey, but had a couple of close encounters with docks and sailboat masts. On both days there was little boat or sailboard traffic when I arrived and was only riding with other kiters. It wasn't until later in the day that it got crowded with lots of boats and my windsurfer buddies. Feel free to let me know it I'm wrecking your ride. I think we can share the water if we don't let hostilities grow & keep the dialogue open. I'm willing to adjust my style or go kite downwind if I'm making you uncomfortable. I plan to try kiting Bellaire again on Sunday, but will probably end up down on the sand bar & hopefully out of
the path of other sailors. Jim N.

[Tom L]

Tighe,

I know nothing about the Ramsey launch because I'm on the west side of town and it's just too far, Milly might be closer for me. But after reading this thread I checked the lakes section just to see a map of the area and I found the text below. If it's an experts only launch you really might want to add something to the text. A beginner looking around here might not get a clear picture of how many hazards there are at Ramsey.

"Kiting: White Bear offers great kiting. Ramsey has a great rigging area and shallows out a few hundred yards. Bellaire works well for W and NW winds. Stay a ways out from shore to avoid any "issues" with docks."

[Tighe]

Good point Tom. The text needs to be updated. Can't tell you the amount of updates that are on the list. Doing my best.

[garrett]

I wish I saw this thread yesterday...

Tighe,

I know nothing about the Ramsey launch because I'm on the west side of town and it's just too far, Milly might be closer for me. But after reading this thread I checked the lakes section just to see a map of the area and I found the text below. If it's an experts only launch you really might want to add something to the text. A beginner looking around here might not get a clear picture of how many hazards there are at Ramsey.

"Kiting: White Bear offers great kiting. Ramsey has a great rigging area and shallows out a few hundred yards. Bellaire works well for W and NW winds. Stay a ways out from shore to avoid any "issues" with docks."

I just got a new kite today and wanted to try out the new board I built. I went out to Ramsey, boy that was a mistake. Nothing happened since I was super careful; but as a noob kiter, Ramsey did seem rather cumbersome.

[ice_kmauve]

Remember me (Dave) from Calhoun last winter? You had the yellow Slingshot B-4 and I flew a large green/teal Peter Lynn. Let me save you a couple saturday afternoons, that I spent driving around town trying to find launches suitable for newbs. Go up to Malmo (on Mille Lacs) on a weekend with a good S/SW or even W or E wind. You'll learn fast with the huge clear swaths of shallow water up there. You might try Lake Washington, but I guess it's almost as far of a drive. Ask around, everybody pretty much knows the place. See you up there.

[Tighe]

damn, my bad. I need to get to that list of updates....it's getting long. I know a lot of you have sent in Faces info as well....I will do my best to get to all of this soon.

The text for WBL has been updated.

[NORTHSTAR]

lake whashington is the closest learing enviroment to the cities Unless its closer to make the drive to lake millacs . it will save u time and hassle by making the drive to kite these places. my 2 cents oh yea chris b malmo is a good launch but best in the state, u mean best as in closest to the cities.

[Tighe]

nate, I'd agree with Chris. Malmo is the best in the state for learning. With hundreds of acres of shallow sandy bottomed water, and steady winds it is pretty much ideal. Washington is good as well.

If you are less experienced, take the extra time and make the drive. It will be worth it.

[NORTHSTAR]

Tighe i agree with u it is the best LEARNING enviroment . Chris wrote it is the best launch in the state . if pulling your kite thru trees then walking thru 12ft of rocks to get to chigger infested water is the best launch. id rather try a beach like ready or superoir.

[Dave Z]

One thing folks are failing to mention about Ramsey (for a newb kiter) is that once fall hits and the docs go out, swimming buoys are pulled, and all the crowds are gone it's back to being ok - still not perfect but with a bow kite that easily depowers combined with the shallow water it is doable - I'm relatively experienced on snow but still very new to water so that's my take. I spent a few days at Ramsey this past fall and spring and it was fine. Again - no docks or people and frigid water. Ramsey is ok for spring and fall but once the docks go in and swimmers show up it is for experienced riders.

[Tighe]

Dave I'll disagree with you here.

Onshore winds are never good for the less experienced and onshore winds with a cement wall at water level, metal signs and a building downwind less than 2 kite lines length away is just not a good idea. ALWAYS give yourself a buffer zone. At least 3 line lengths when learning and whatever you are comfortable with when your are experienced. Poop Happens.

[Dave Z]

I agree with shinto happening - maybe I should temper my comments by saying if the wind is from the South...not dead onshore SE at Ramsey. If it's South you can walk yourself quite a ways upwind and drag out so you do not have that nice concrete retaining wall in the way.