No Wax for P-Tex 2000

ArcticWindsurf · Post by **ArcticWindsurf** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:36 pm

After reading the recent wax post, I thought this post deserved its own topic, because it is something I never knew about . . .

In a recent conversation with a reputable store owner from out west, it was explained that the newer skis (and I assume snowboards) are made from P-Tex 2000, which, according to this store owner, DO NOT absorb any wax and do not need any wax at all. Moreover, this store owner said that if you really want your skis to work well, just use the kitchen spray PAM, the stuff you spray on cookie sheets so that the cookies don't stick.

NO, this post is not a joke at all, and this was what I was told by the owner. I'm trying PAM on my new skiboards (snowblades) on my next trip out (hopefully this next week). I think it will probably work well.

Has anybody else heard of this P-Tex 2000 and about using PAM instead of wax? I ski raced for 3 years and taught skiing out west fo 6 years, and have waxed my skis hundreds of times, and hearing this really surprised me, but at the same time I found this news really exciting because - PAM is much cheaper than ski wax, and much easier to apply than hot waxing skis with an iron.

- Arctic

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:08 pm

I've heard of durasurf 2000 which is typically a sintered base, maybe the same.
Pam I don't know, when the heat from the friction builds up does your board start to smell like a New york diner?mmmmmmm fried salomons!

kiteboymn · Post by **kiteboymn** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:11 am

Hmmm, I wonder if deoderant would do the job, maybe speed stick

DRA · Post by **DRA** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:58 pm

Yea yea, yuk it up, but yes Pam does work well. Also rain-X does the same thing.
TERRY

Professor Robae' · Post by **Professor Robae'** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:41 pm

Yes; I have tried many different ski waxes, spray on and rub on compounds for iceboat & ice-surfer blades. These blades are all various grades of stainless or carbon steel. It seems that everything I have tried rubs off rather quickly.

I have not tried Pam or Rain-Ex. Do you think they will adhere to cold stainless steel for a reasonable length of time? Snow temperature, condition & water content certainly are significant variables. Any application ideas?

Sticky runners (blades) are definitely annoying & slow!

Coach · Post by **Coach** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:15 pm

Hey Robae', ever tried McLube on any of that stuff?

I have a feeling that no matter what it is, it will rub off of metal rather fast.

-Coach

Mike B · Post by **Mike B** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:48 pm

McLube/Sailkote works great on everything. I use it on iceboat runners when there is sticky snow. It definately helps, but doesn't last very long. I havn't tryed it on skis yet - it should work. The stuff is amazing. It's a dry lube that substantially lowers friction but does not collect any dirt. The Grand Prix sailing community wouldn't know what to do without the stuff. Some of the programs buy it by the drum.

p.s. Spray it on your snow shovel - you will never have snow stick to it again.

Tom L · Post by **Tom L** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:59 pm

That Mclube is cool stuff. I think it was Todd Hanson who taught me to spray it all over the CL line on my WW bars. Have to try it on the shovel and the skis too. It's not greasy so you can try it on anything without fear of ending up with a greasy mess. Works great for any line that has to go through a pulley, among a million other uses. West Marine has it.

Professor Robae' · Post by **Professor Robae'** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:23 pm

Coach wrote:Hey Robae', ever tried McLube on any of that stuff?

I have a feeling that no matter what it is, it will rub off of metal rather fast.

-Coach

Yea; I've used the Mclube on the runners. And yes, unfortunately is does not stay for very long at all. It's amazing how different metals stick less in certain conditions. Type 316 stainless (which is very soft) is the best when above freezing (works best if it's sanded very smooth & polished).

440C is the sport's standard and works well when below freezing but not if it's polished smooth (I will actually scratch the sides a bit). Also it seems that the method and the temperature that the 440C is tempered at has a significant effect on its stickiness (& hardness).

Definitely a Voodoo science!

There is a DN sailor from Poland who is pretty new to the sport and finished fourth in the world championship last year. He has a buddy on the Olympic Bobsled team who helped him build some runners. He's made himself famous by refusing to tell anyone what kind of metal they used. Only that the runners cost over $1,200 a piece to build! Yikes!

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:24 pm

I've used rain X in the spring when the snow is really wet, works great.
On those days wax is definatley a hinderance.

Coach · Post by **Coach** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:28 pm

One thing is for sure, the Kiter Crossing will be an interesting race this year.

I don't remember ever waxing my sailboard for the original Crossing. Now I have to geek out for this kiting stuff? Oh crap...

Professor Robae' · Post by **Professor Robae'** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:16 pm

Coach wrote: I don't remember ever waxing my sailboard for the original Crossing. Now I have to geek out for this kiting stuff? Oh crap...

Who needs to 'geek out' when you the master of the pre-crossing mind games Coach. Like the the time you psyched me into using the wrong board to cross.

Doh!

Tom L · Post by **Tom L** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:56 pm

Here is the spec sheet on P-Tex from IMS plastics that makes the P-Tex 2000, doesn't say anything about maintenance though.

http://files.ims-plastics.com/files/Ext ... _bases.pdf

This website is basically the Almanac of all things related to snowboard tech. Has many excellent sections. Here are two: Snowboard design and another on tuning and maintenance. Lots of info on waxing ( if you don't use Rainx or Pam

) More info than anyone could possibly use.

Design: http://www.alpinecarving.com/boards.html
Tuning: http://www.alpinecarving.com/tuning.html

Here is a product I've used for you people who like Rainx. http://www.zardoznotwax.com/

Coach · Post by **Coach** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:47 pm

Oh Robae - Did I do that???

Honestly, I don't remember ever, ever trying to psyche someone out before that race. If I recommended a longboard - it was still the right call. Picking a board is always a crap shoot for the Crossing, as is a fin, sail, and anything else.

Of the four Crossings I've won, only one was so light that everyone in the front half was on a longboard. Two of the other three were *ever so damn close* between me on shortboard and a longboard. (Sorry - the other one (my 2nd) was a 15-minute lead blow-out. Gotta' take my props on that).

I swear, I would help you rig before that race if you asked me (and have for a few people). I'd rather go neck-and-neck with people on skill vs. the equipment battle.

Which brings me to my point - It was never about the equipment (although I enjoy having good stuff). That was one of the things I disliked about ski racing, probably because I was not that good at it - *tuning*. If kite skiing is about McLube, waxing, RainX, silicon, and more... have fun. I'll pull my paraffin-waxed skis out of the garage and hope to god I somehow hit the magic not-so-dirty snow temp.

-Coach

Professor Robae' · Post by **Professor Robae'** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:42 am

Coach wrote:Oh Robae - Did I do that???

I swear, I would help you rig before that race if you asked me

Hmmm; I was thinking for sure your next sentence was going to be about selling me some nice bridge in Brooklyn!

But it's all good; we all love the crossing! Equipment selection is just a part of the 'Ultimate Challenge'! Year 25 coming up; should be epic!

Coach wrote:I'll pull my paraffin-waxed skis out of the garage and hope to god I somehow hit the magic not-so-dirty snow temp.

I think the key to winning the Kiter-crossing is to have tree trunks for legs like our good friend Mr. Joe Levins!