I am in search of a board for this summer. I am thinking of riding the Slingshot Jarvis 157cm. With our winds and my weight (205) it sounds like a good board for me. What's the main difference between the surf style boards and pickle fork boards? Any thoughts on the Slingshot board?
Thanks
Jim
boards for summer
Moderator: MK
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SCOTT RIDOUT
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 12:45 pm
- Location: CHAMPLIN, MINNESOTA
One thing is for certain, don't bother with wake bindings around here.
Full-wrap bindings are such a hassle for the types of launches we have in Minnesota. Besides that, a good deal of the best kiting we get is spring and fall. Your feet will freeze in the wrap bindings - most wake bindings tend to slow or cut off a fair bit of circulation.
I rode wake bindings for a whole season, and they were great (except for the cold feet), but I was much happier overall without them. Wake bindings are also more dangerous for reasons I won't go into.
As for your sled of choice - there is such a wide variety of boards out there, it's hard to make a recommendation. But, I will say the following: get something with a little thickness to it and a sharp rail. With those in mind, get something that is as light as possible.
I don't like the slingshot Jarvis or Drake - they are so damn heavy. Others will certainly disagree... I loved the Naish Mutant, but it's a semi-directional. Twin-tips are the way to go for Minnesota. You don't need a board with 12 fins on the bottom to hold a good edge - find a board that does it with 4-5.
Go light, with a little thickness and a good rail, and a nice comfy set of straps.
-Coach
Full-wrap bindings are such a hassle for the types of launches we have in Minnesota. Besides that, a good deal of the best kiting we get is spring and fall. Your feet will freeze in the wrap bindings - most wake bindings tend to slow or cut off a fair bit of circulation.
I rode wake bindings for a whole season, and they were great (except for the cold feet), but I was much happier overall without them. Wake bindings are also more dangerous for reasons I won't go into.
As for your sled of choice - there is such a wide variety of boards out there, it's hard to make a recommendation. But, I will say the following: get something with a little thickness to it and a sharp rail. With those in mind, get something that is as light as possible.
I don't like the slingshot Jarvis or Drake - they are so damn heavy. Others will certainly disagree... I loved the Naish Mutant, but it's a semi-directional. Twin-tips are the way to go for Minnesota. You don't need a board with 12 fins on the bottom to hold a good edge - find a board that does it with 4-5.
Go light, with a little thickness and a good rail, and a nice comfy set of straps.
-Coach
I had really good luck using an Airush Switch twintip 180cm at 210lbs last season. http://www.downhaul.com/kites/020602/im ... 020014.jpg This board has some volume to it 37L and I think that helps float through the lulls but gets bouncy im my upper range. I think this will be my main board this year since I'll only kite with a 16 or 18M (that's the plan so far). I'm also thinking about using my 7'11'' surf funboard for really light wind (who knows if it will work). If you are a snowboarder or wakeboarder I think a twintip will feel natural for you.
I purchased a Jarvis last year but never used it. This board doesn't have any volume to speak of but has a very nice shape, sharp rails and configureable fins. I know Tighe used one last year and perhaps Alex. Matt K used the little brother of it called the Drake. I'm sure there are folks on this board that have used one. I don't think I've ever heard any complaints about them except that the rails my litterally be to sharp. Like cut you sharp.
The general rule of thumb that I have heard for a beginer on the water is "Smaller kite, larger board." I would agree with that. When you are starting on the water one of the main challenges (too me) was providing smooth power when sinusing the kite. A board with some float (or wider is what they are doing recently) is more likely to keep the beginer on a plane.
Scott, as to boots vs straps... I don't think you will be bothered by not being booted in. Straps feel natural after a few hrs. If your goal is to totally go wake style you might boot up after you learn how to stayup wind and relaunch consistantly. I don't think I saw one person using a wakeboard around here last year. I did see a few in the Gorge not many.
these are my opinions, take them with a grain of salt and know that last year was my first on the water. I am a beginer/intermediate.
good luck!
I purchased a Jarvis last year but never used it. This board doesn't have any volume to speak of but has a very nice shape, sharp rails and configureable fins. I know Tighe used one last year and perhaps Alex. Matt K used the little brother of it called the Drake. I'm sure there are folks on this board that have used one. I don't think I've ever heard any complaints about them except that the rails my litterally be to sharp. Like cut you sharp.
The general rule of thumb that I have heard for a beginer on the water is "Smaller kite, larger board." I would agree with that. When you are starting on the water one of the main challenges (too me) was providing smooth power when sinusing the kite. A board with some float (or wider is what they are doing recently) is more likely to keep the beginer on a plane.
Scott, as to boots vs straps... I don't think you will be bothered by not being booted in. Straps feel natural after a few hrs. If your goal is to totally go wake style you might boot up after you learn how to stayup wind and relaunch consistantly. I don't think I saw one person using a wakeboard around here last year. I did see a few in the Gorge not many.
these are my opinions, take them with a grain of salt and know that last year was my first on the water. I am a beginer/intermediate.
good luck!
I have heard that a directional board is better to learn on than a twin-tip. Does this sound correct? I'm not sure of the reasoning behind this, but I thought that it was because right now they are making larger & more floaty directionals than twin-tips...anyone have any idea? Any major problems first learning on a twin-tip?
The drake and jarvis are good boards but coach is right when he says there heavy, I have a drake and really like the way it rides but it lacks on the low end.
As far as starting on a twin, thats what I did last year and things went good. Matt Z has some good twin tips in the classified that would be good for learning.
As far as starting on a twin, thats what I did last year and things went good. Matt Z has some good twin tips in the classified that would be good for learning.
There are no major problems first learning on a twin-tip, especially with straps...
The general feeling about learning on a directional is that it sets you up better to go in the intended direction. The big fins in the back of most directionals help square up and get you going when 'water-starting' and first diving the kite to get going.
Once someone learns to get a twin-tips 'tail' (depending on direction of choice, of course) under their butt for the water-starting phase, a directional's assistance mostly becomes a non-issue.
-Coach
The general feeling about learning on a directional is that it sets you up better to go in the intended direction. The big fins in the back of most directionals help square up and get you going when 'water-starting' and first diving the kite to get going.
Once someone learns to get a twin-tips 'tail' (depending on direction of choice, of course) under their butt for the water-starting phase, a directional's assistance mostly becomes a non-issue.
-Coach
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SCOTT RIDOUT
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 12:45 pm
- Location: CHAMPLIN, MINNESOTA
I think you guys are right on about the wrap boot bindings, not a good idea I think for kiteboarding. I have looked at allot of the straps and they look really comfortable and practical. I have been leaning in the direction of the twin tips, I just have to find a light one. Thank all of you for the input, it will make my choice a bit easier. What I don't want to end up doing is forking out the money and not liking the board and then get stuck with it.
Great opinions.
I loved my Jarvis. It was super durable, could be dialed in for the conditions via fin configuration and had the best footbed out there. The footbed has a foot arch that in combination with the asymetrical Doyle strap or better yet the NSI Adam Kock strap, holds your foot like no other. This years versions are lighter since they have refined their manufacturing process in a new "clean room" type factory.
I never really found the 157 Jarvis to be too big. If it was nukin and I was on my 8m, I was running just the small wake style fins on heel side. If it was really light I put all 6 fins on and it carried me through the lulls.
These boards are made like snowboards. The durability may add a bit to the weight though I never thought the board was heavy in the air. As a beginner durability is probably an issue to consider. Actually at any stage, if you're pushing yourself, durability is an issue. The rails can be slightly sanded without effecting performance.
There are many great boards out there like this though. The Undergrounds are awesome. Moondog, Coach and Myself picked up three 147 Wavetrays from Larry end of last year. I've only had a few sessions on mine, and so far love it.
The pickleforks seemed to have been a bit of a trend that isn't being followed. Not sure exactly why.
The Wipika Olry (and boards like it) is an awesome board. It has a bit of float and length, though is super smooth in all conditions.
Each manufacturer has twin tips that are sweet.
Directionals are easier to learn on, though if you are dedicated and can get out a lot, learning on a 160cm+ twintip shouldn't be too difficult. If you see yourself only getting out on weekends I might suggest the directional, just cause you'll be having fun much sooner.
Slingshot also came out with a LFT, Little Fat Twin, that is intended to speed up the learning and get you having fun sooner. A lot of experienced riders are having a blast on this board in super light winds.
As with any equipment purchase there is always that tough choice. If you buy for your current level, you will enjoy it sooner though may want to sell it sooner as well. If you buy a few levels above you, you may take a while to be at the same enjoyment level with it, but you won't outgrow it as quickly. My advice is always to find a deal on that easier gear, use it, have fun, then sell it. You'll have a much better idea of what you are looking for when you buy that next peice of gear...and you'll be less hard on it. Besides gear is constantly changing. By the time you've dialed that perfect board, there will be a new one out.
Think about how much you be able to get out realistically. If you think you'll only be able to get out on weekends. Buy bigger. The summer is full of 5-15 mph days. Very few 15-25.
Think about where you are at in your progression. Are you staying upwind consistently and can handle significant power? If not go bigger... 160cm +
Hope this helps.
I loved my Jarvis. It was super durable, could be dialed in for the conditions via fin configuration and had the best footbed out there. The footbed has a foot arch that in combination with the asymetrical Doyle strap or better yet the NSI Adam Kock strap, holds your foot like no other. This years versions are lighter since they have refined their manufacturing process in a new "clean room" type factory.
I never really found the 157 Jarvis to be too big. If it was nukin and I was on my 8m, I was running just the small wake style fins on heel side. If it was really light I put all 6 fins on and it carried me through the lulls.
These boards are made like snowboards. The durability may add a bit to the weight though I never thought the board was heavy in the air. As a beginner durability is probably an issue to consider. Actually at any stage, if you're pushing yourself, durability is an issue. The rails can be slightly sanded without effecting performance.
There are many great boards out there like this though. The Undergrounds are awesome. Moondog, Coach and Myself picked up three 147 Wavetrays from Larry end of last year. I've only had a few sessions on mine, and so far love it.
The pickleforks seemed to have been a bit of a trend that isn't being followed. Not sure exactly why.
The Wipika Olry (and boards like it) is an awesome board. It has a bit of float and length, though is super smooth in all conditions.
Each manufacturer has twin tips that are sweet.
Directionals are easier to learn on, though if you are dedicated and can get out a lot, learning on a 160cm+ twintip shouldn't be too difficult. If you see yourself only getting out on weekends I might suggest the directional, just cause you'll be having fun much sooner.
Slingshot also came out with a LFT, Little Fat Twin, that is intended to speed up the learning and get you having fun sooner. A lot of experienced riders are having a blast on this board in super light winds.
As with any equipment purchase there is always that tough choice. If you buy for your current level, you will enjoy it sooner though may want to sell it sooner as well. If you buy a few levels above you, you may take a while to be at the same enjoyment level with it, but you won't outgrow it as quickly. My advice is always to find a deal on that easier gear, use it, have fun, then sell it. You'll have a much better idea of what you are looking for when you buy that next peice of gear...and you'll be less hard on it. Besides gear is constantly changing. By the time you've dialed that perfect board, there will be a new one out.
Think about how much you be able to get out realistically. If you think you'll only be able to get out on weekends. Buy bigger. The summer is full of 5-15 mph days. Very few 15-25.
Think about where you are at in your progression. Are you staying upwind consistently and can handle significant power? If not go bigger... 160cm +
Hope this helps.
Tighe
My Wipika Eclipse is for sale in the classifieds - it is an awesome board for all conditions that I have used it in from light wind Lake Waconia slogging, to full on Gorge conditions. I have also tried the Jarvis and liked it too - it felt a little stiff, but it had all the fins in it so maybe with fewer fins it would ride a little looser.
I don't see why anyone would start on a directional board - in my opinion a twin tip is WAY easier for learning - NO gybing! Just my 2 cents.
Dave R
I don't see why anyone would start on a directional board - in my opinion a twin tip is WAY easier for learning - NO gybing! Just my 2 cents.
Dave R
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jim lehman
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 10:14 pm
- Location: rochester
boards for summer
Thanks for all the great information. I do have a Naish Sky Pirate I purchased from Larry towards the end of last season. Looking at the board it just seems like it would be hard to hold an edge and get upwind. (But I guess I would have to worry about starting and standing before worring about going up wind). Is this board hard to edge on and go upwind? What about jibbing on a directional, this seems to be rather difficult to learn or once you are able to start and go would the need step be a twin tip or surf style board; and not spend a lot of time with jibbing.
As far as what month to start. I was thinking maybe the end of April or begging of May. This way I could buy a "steamer type suit" I figure it is probably not a good ideal for a beginner to hanging in a dry suit, since I would definetly be the water more than a more experience rider. Would a steamer suit for this time frame work.
Thanks Jim
As far as what month to start. I was thinking maybe the end of April or begging of May. This way I could buy a "steamer type suit" I figure it is probably not a good ideal for a beginner to hanging in a dry suit, since I would definetly be the water more than a more experience rider. Would a steamer suit for this time frame work.
Thanks Jim
Thousands of people have learned on Sky Pirates, probably more than any other board. Since you have it, I'd use it till you realize it's limitations which may be all summer.
Jibing a directional is challenging though when you dial them they are some of the sweetest looking and feeling moves out there.
http://www.windancing.com/community/gal ... /coach.jpg
Matt B once told me to not look down and it would be easy...boy was he right..well maybe not easy...easier. Commit to it and enjoy.
I'd say go with a drysuit. Since you're gonna be in the water a lot you'll need the warmth. Thick steamers are good too though.
If you buy the right suit you'll be able to be out as soon as the ice is out...which may be July...it sure is thick.
good luck
Jibing a directional is challenging though when you dial them they are some of the sweetest looking and feeling moves out there.
http://www.windancing.com/community/gal ... /coach.jpg
Matt B once told me to not look down and it would be easy...boy was he right..well maybe not easy...easier. Commit to it and enjoy.
I'd say go with a drysuit. Since you're gonna be in the water a lot you'll need the warmth. Thick steamers are good too though.
If you buy the right suit you'll be able to be out as soon as the ice is out...which may be July...it sure is thick.
good luck
Tighe
Re: boards for summer
You don't even need to learn how to jibe at first. Get a ride in one direction, plop back in the water, repossition the board, waterstart and to the other way. You will get alot of practice waterstarting and flying the kite while in the water, all good. Once you get this routine down you will be ready for a twintip. After your first ride and transition on a twintip you might ask yourself "Shucks! Why didn't I start out on a twintip? It's so easy!"jim lehman wrote:What about jibbing on a directional, this seems to be rather difficult to learn or once you are able to start and go would the need step be a twin tip or surf style board; and not spend a lot of time with jibbing.
You can learn how to jibe if you want to. I agree with Tighe, the jibe is such a sweet looking and feeling move. There are some old videos of Robbie Naish ripping some jibes. Personally I'd rather do that than boost big air. That's why I'm going to try the surfboard this summer. No straps, No air, just ride and jibe. It might not work though. We'll see...
I like your timeframe for getting out. May is my favorite month around here. Weeds are low, Sun is high and there is a good chance for wind. There is also the promise that tomorrow might be warmer then yesterday. June rocks too then July and August drive some of us nutz.jim lehman wrote:As far as what month to start. I was thinking maybe the end of April or begging of May. This way I could buy a "steamer type suit" I figure it is probably not a good ideal for a beginner to hanging in a dry suit, since I would definetly be the water more than a more experience rider. Would a steamer suit for this time frame work.
Thanks Jim
That's why we head to the Gorge http://www.spottke.com/eric/trip2000/ in those months. It's like sping every day there.
I used a Bare Polarheat last year as my cold water/weather suit. I was able to go from this one right to a shorty. I have never had the pleasure of squeezing myself into a steamer. If you are going to be in the water alot in the colder months, a good dry suit might be call.
Randy J says this, "Dress for the swim in, not the sail out." or somthing like that. I can relate. Last year I broke my boom at Cannon http://www.downhaul.com/misc/020410/ in early April. I was very thankfull once I got back to shore that I had a good drysuit. If I had something less, I might not be writing this now.
Have Fun!
I don't see why you want the extra hassle of repositioning the board every time you plop down in the water. I can't think of one good reason to start on a directional board versus a twin tip, unless you already own one. As far as jibing goes, you can "jibe" or switch directions on a twin tip easier and with as much force, flair, grace, power, etc as you can on a directional AND you don't have to hassle with switching your feet. If turning around turns you on a twin tip will certainly do the trick!
Just a note here...
Check out the North Will LW 165 - it is a big board that looks good for beginners and has the added benefit of being setup in either a directional or twintip configuration. It is a little spendy for a beginner board, but seems like it is a product that you can grow with.
Any thoughts? Anyone ridden one of these boards?
Check out the North Will LW 165 - it is a big board that looks good for beginners and has the added benefit of being setup in either a directional or twintip configuration. It is a little spendy for a beginner board, but seems like it is a product that you can grow with.
Any thoughts? Anyone ridden one of these boards?