Rapture II is out
Moderator: MK
If you are considering an '06 Rapture purchase, I would inquire about when the new '06 CC bar is coming out. It doesn't seem to be out yet, but is due this fall I think. Also you may be able to use the '06 Rap with any bar I think (not sure), but the CC bar is pretty nice.
At any rate if I bought the kite complete I'd want the new '06 bar, so a little research is in order before spending that cash.
Windwing forum should have info, if you post.
My opinion is thet the Rap is kind of midway between the "C" kite and a Crossbow. The '05's were for sure. The Raps have the depower range of a Crossbow without some of the various issues. But on comparison of the '05 Rap & the Crossbow, the Crossbow is the better performer. Dr. Lightwind who also owns both says the same thing. But the '06 is supposedly improved, and less expensive than the Crossbow, so it could be a good choice. Hard to get a demo of a Rap anywhere in the midwest so forums are one of the only sources for making informed decisions.
At any rate if I bought the kite complete I'd want the new '06 bar, so a little research is in order before spending that cash.
Windwing forum should have info, if you post.
My opinion is thet the Rap is kind of midway between the "C" kite and a Crossbow. The '05's were for sure. The Raps have the depower range of a Crossbow without some of the various issues. But on comparison of the '05 Rap & the Crossbow, the Crossbow is the better performer. Dr. Lightwind who also owns both says the same thing. But the '06 is supposedly improved, and less expensive than the Crossbow, so it could be a good choice. Hard to get a demo of a Rap anywhere in the midwest so forums are one of the only sources for making informed decisions.
Hey Tom - got to fly the Xbow on the beach and talk to a bunch of people, including the rep, about it.
Not a bad kite at all. However, the majority of my initial opinions hold true. It clearly is more of a beginner / intermediate and wave-riding kite. That's not a bad thing 75% of the market would fall into that category - I can only think of roughly a dozen guys around here that would be potentially limited by the kite.
It was kinda' funny, because the one semi-pro guy who was riding them had rigged up the bar and line system such that he pretty much defeated the depower system. As far as the bar was concerned, the kite rode like a C kite. He was throwing mostly the same stuff as everyone else and wasn't boosting any more or much less than anyone else.
So, the one thing I might restate/reinforce is the general potential of the kite. It's not the swiss-army knife the zealots have been touting, and it's definitely not necessarily 'better' in any riding characteristic, but most people would be well-served by it - especially for the depower range.
-Coach
Not a bad kite at all. However, the majority of my initial opinions hold true. It clearly is more of a beginner / intermediate and wave-riding kite. That's not a bad thing 75% of the market would fall into that category - I can only think of roughly a dozen guys around here that would be potentially limited by the kite.
It was kinda' funny, because the one semi-pro guy who was riding them had rigged up the bar and line system such that he pretty much defeated the depower system. As far as the bar was concerned, the kite rode like a C kite. He was throwing mostly the same stuff as everyone else and wasn't boosting any more or much less than anyone else.
So, the one thing I might restate/reinforce is the general potential of the kite. It's not the swiss-army knife the zealots have been touting, and it's definitely not necessarily 'better' in any riding characteristic, but most people would be well-served by it - especially for the depower range.
-Coach
-
steveb
- Posts: 2146
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:31 pm
- Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
Coach, how about a little more info on your Mi trip?.
Xbow. I didn't know there had been performance claims other than safer and more range.I suppose they claim more low end grunt. This is actually the area where I'm a little disapointed, however I do think the low end is similar to an 18m. ( I was hoping for a 20m pull).
I'll stand by being one of the 75% who needs the depower for our gusts. For me the kite really smooths out our variable wind.
I think anyone doing un hooked tricks will not like the kite, if the bar is released the kites going to fall out of the sky. I would guess this is the reason the "advanced" rider changed the bar set up.
Out of interest what did you think of the relaunch and the depower range?
Xbow. I didn't know there had been performance claims other than safer and more range.I suppose they claim more low end grunt. This is actually the area where I'm a little disapointed, however I do think the low end is similar to an 18m. ( I was hoping for a 20m pull).
I'll stand by being one of the 75% who needs the depower for our gusts. For me the kite really smooths out our variable wind.
I think anyone doing un hooked tricks will not like the kite, if the bar is released the kites going to fall out of the sky. I would guess this is the reason the "advanced" rider changed the bar set up.
Out of interest what did you think of the relaunch and the depower range?
I didn't get to try out the relaunch. Since this guy had the bar rigged funny, I couldn't depower it either, except by grabbing the front lines manually. Once depowered, it was impressively benign.
People had been hyping performance. I think it's becoming clear that there is no advantage with the kite's performance. It's performance seems to take a very small hit, actually.
Steve - you are right, the depower is killer, especially for around here. But because of that, I wouldn't ride it. I want to be able to let go of the bar and be able to stay powered. In order to get that, you have to defeat the depower. Catch-22.
The other thing was the bar pressure. With sheeting comes bar pressure, and with bar pressure comes my kiter's elbow syndrome. And, the turning wasn't very precise. As-in, it was like the Wipika AirBlast in that the bridal dumbs down the feeling on the bar - you have a hard time telling where the kite is and which way it is going without looking at it.
As you can probably tell, it's clearly a good kite. If you are throwing a lot of wake-style tricks it's not your kite, and if you are doing any big whip jumps where you want to let go of the bar a lot (one or both hands) it's not going to be your engine of choice, either. However, I don't see too many people doing much of either.
You could modify the depower system to act more like most C kites. Unfortunately, by doing that you are probably taking a 5-10% performance penalty all-around. That's just fine if you want a kite that will more-or-less do it all. If you want a kite that doesn't compromise for hardcore riding, it's not for you. Again, most people want the all-around. I would equally or highly recommend the thing to most riders compared to similar level non-xbow kites.
As for the rest of the trip - Tighe and I dodged some low clouds and thunderheads during the 3-hour flight. The weather turned crystal clear over the lake, and Tighe nodded off, not realizing he was oxygen deprived after I climbed to 9500ft. We landed at the airport on Thursday just as the wind was hitting a steady 12-15knots. We pulled the rental car right up to the plane, dumped our gear in, and were at the beach in less than 10 minutes. Tighe got out riding, I did some expression-session judging, and we generally enjoyed the warm sunny day on the beach. Handle-passes and kite-loops ruled the water.
Grand Haven is a fun town, and we partied at the Kirby Grille until late in the evening. A local photog projected photos from an LCD onto the building nextdoor from our outdoor balcony bar perch. Tighe kicked in some snowkiting images, as well, onto the 30-ft high wall.
Even if you don't compete, I highly recommend heading to Grand Haven next year during the event. The beach is HUGE and runs for hundreds of miles along the lakeshore. There is plenty of space to ride near the contest site and get some spectating in.
We caught the wind on Th., dead on Friday, but they had wind both Saturday and Sunday.
-Coach
People had been hyping performance. I think it's becoming clear that there is no advantage with the kite's performance. It's performance seems to take a very small hit, actually.
Steve - you are right, the depower is killer, especially for around here. But because of that, I wouldn't ride it. I want to be able to let go of the bar and be able to stay powered. In order to get that, you have to defeat the depower. Catch-22.
The other thing was the bar pressure. With sheeting comes bar pressure, and with bar pressure comes my kiter's elbow syndrome. And, the turning wasn't very precise. As-in, it was like the Wipika AirBlast in that the bridal dumbs down the feeling on the bar - you have a hard time telling where the kite is and which way it is going without looking at it.
As you can probably tell, it's clearly a good kite. If you are throwing a lot of wake-style tricks it's not your kite, and if you are doing any big whip jumps where you want to let go of the bar a lot (one or both hands) it's not going to be your engine of choice, either. However, I don't see too many people doing much of either.
You could modify the depower system to act more like most C kites. Unfortunately, by doing that you are probably taking a 5-10% performance penalty all-around. That's just fine if you want a kite that will more-or-less do it all. If you want a kite that doesn't compromise for hardcore riding, it's not for you. Again, most people want the all-around. I would equally or highly recommend the thing to most riders compared to similar level non-xbow kites.
As for the rest of the trip - Tighe and I dodged some low clouds and thunderheads during the 3-hour flight. The weather turned crystal clear over the lake, and Tighe nodded off, not realizing he was oxygen deprived after I climbed to 9500ft. We landed at the airport on Thursday just as the wind was hitting a steady 12-15knots. We pulled the rental car right up to the plane, dumped our gear in, and were at the beach in less than 10 minutes. Tighe got out riding, I did some expression-session judging, and we generally enjoyed the warm sunny day on the beach. Handle-passes and kite-loops ruled the water.
Grand Haven is a fun town, and we partied at the Kirby Grille until late in the evening. A local photog projected photos from an LCD onto the building nextdoor from our outdoor balcony bar perch. Tighe kicked in some snowkiting images, as well, onto the 30-ft high wall.
Even if you don't compete, I highly recommend heading to Grand Haven next year during the event. The beach is HUGE and runs for hundreds of miles along the lakeshore. There is plenty of space to ride near the contest site and get some spectating in.
We caught the wind on Th., dead on Friday, but they had wind both Saturday and Sunday.
-Coach
Eric, sorry to hear about your fire at work. Hope everyone was ok.
Sounds like a good thing your company does. Hope you're back in business soon. Please figure out a way to allow my van to run on Peat, gas prices are going through the roof and too many people have died over the oil fields.
I'll let Denis post about his new kites and board and the rest of the event. Sounds like the magical Point Sabel kicked in again.
Sounds like a good thing your company does. Hope you're back in business soon. Please figure out a way to allow my van to run on Peat, gas prices are going through the roof and too many people have died over the oil fields.
I'll let Denis post about his new kites and board and the rest of the event. Sounds like the magical Point Sabel kicked in again.
Tighe
I tried the crossbow in Madison unhooked and I had no problems doing wake tricks with the standard setup. The only thing I didn't like was the bar pressure. I reverse relaunched the bloody thing straight through the power and pushed the bar away.... barely any pull, amazing.
In fact if you rigged a pulley bar with a leash to the pulley area and chucked the bar on a handle pass it would most likely totally depower. Saw Cam do this at KOGL but with a standard bar. Its like a suicide leash without the massive pull if you miss a handle pass. Of course you lose the depower range of the chicken loop but rig what ever bar you want for the conditions.
Karl
In fact if you rigged a pulley bar with a leash to the pulley area and chucked the bar on a handle pass it would most likely totally depower. Saw Cam do this at KOGL but with a standard bar. Its like a suicide leash without the massive pull if you miss a handle pass. Of course you lose the depower range of the chicken loop but rig what ever bar you want for the conditions.
Karl