I still am not Sure what Kite I should Get

[Hunter Welles]

Hey everybody thanks for the input on the kites but now I have it narrowed down to a few different ones. I have been using the B4 latley and I am having a lot of fun with it. I am now wanting to learn how to jump. I really like the simplicity of the foil kites so I am leaning toward those, but Charly Leekley left me a message saying that Peter Hill wanted to sell me a wipika 8.4, also Rob Evans wanted to sell me a Naish AR5 7.5 Charlie also said that he usally uses the B4 as a trainer and he says it collapses in the side of the window. But Larry said that the B4 would be the perfect kite for me. I could buy it used the exact one that I had been using for much less. Only 259 instead of 499. But that will only work in the heavier winds so Tighe also suggested geting something like an Ozone 7.5 for a lighter winds kite. But the troube that I have with that is I think that it is sometimes gusier in heavier winds and I am not sure how far the B4 will take me Jumping wise. The frenzy is a little quicker in the air to turn so that may be esiar to jump on and it has for line capabilitys. So please tell me what you think I should do.

[Eric S]

You should buy my 7.3 Frenzy. It will be perfect for you, just like the other guys say their kites are. (joke, joke, joke!)

Learn how to handle a kite around others. This seems like a lost skill from what I saw last weekend. Plus, there is only at most 4 more weeks of ice kiting. Don't buy somthing you can't use for 9 months unless you have lots of money. I don't think you have lots of money otherwise you wouldn't be asking your question.

STICK WITH THE B4! IT'S A GREAT KITE.

If you are still interested in my Ozone Frenzy 7.3M .....

Only $619 complete.

[Barry P]

IMO no kite is perfect and all kites are wonderful.

If you get hooked as bad as most of us you're certainly going to end up with at least two kites... if not five or more. Part of the equation is just learning what YOU like your kite to excel at and none of us can advise you on that. You'll learn a lot about what you like just by going through the try & buy, or buy & try, & sell cycle.

The conflicting advice you're hearing is just a reflection of the fact that most kites are really pretty good at what they were designed for. What you've seen this winter in threads regarding the "Psycho" is a good example of this... one kiter concludes it's too edgy, awesome but unforgiving, another flyer sees it as the best kite he's ever touched. In general, though, newer kites will tend to have better upwind performance and more range because of improvements in design... which I think everyone likes.

Whatever you get will be great a lot of the time if you target the average wind range of the season for your 1st kite. Beware, though, within weeks you'll be scrapping and scheming how to get something a little bit more this or that. Welcome to the hell of wind addiction.

Anyhow, any kite is going to be great in the right kind of wind. Just beware of used ones that have been ripped.

Ya... the B-4 is a wonderful kite. Add a brake bridle if you'd like it to reverse launch.

[john g]

Hunter, for what it is worth, i am 60lbs heavier than you are and really enjoyed my time on the ice with a B-3 all of last year. and while i am not a water kiter, i did manage to use the 3 during the off-snow season honing my skills and just turning people onto the smile of kiting. i truly believe that the need for practice without being overpowered cannot be overstated. particularly when flying in groups. i have added a B-5 this year and even though i am fully satisfied with the power i have in that kite, as i develop my skills, and desire to cast off the snow, (and the wind lulls) i do find myself thinking of a larger kite. but the reality is that i am not able to buy a new kite every time the wind changes, and when next year comes around, i may be able to add a larger kite, but in the meantime, i am flying when the wind blows. good luck with your choice.

[Tighe]

Well Hunter I hope you've got a bit more clarity on the issue now. The responses here are some of the best advice I've heard. The only thing I would add, which is implied in Eric's post is to be sceptacle of anyone who claims the kite they are selling is the best kite for you. The best approach, which is what you've done, is to take the advice from many and then make your own decision. With the exception of the the Airblasts and ARX, any of the kites you're considering would do you well. While you're picking up the knowledge extremely fast, you may sell whatever you buy after 6 months because you've educated yourself on what YOU want.
Another suggestion is to read what the manufacturer has said regarding who the kite was designed for. The beginner/intermediate kites are not lower in performance. They are designed to make learning easier, make flying more enjoyable, and reduce that chance of you really hurting yourself.

As has been said, don't stress trying to find the ideal first choice...make one, get out there and have fun.

[Eric S]

Hey Hunter and gang,

I'm sorry for the post above. I was trying to be clever and funny. After re-reading it I was neither. I'll stick to suggesting a 4M foil type kite. You will get some good use out of it in the summer too (I'm perty sure you said you were NOT planning on the water this year?). We ride our 3 and 4M foils with skateboards and mountainboards in parking lots. I would not do this with a tube kite cause we drop them once and awhile.

http://www.downhaul.com/kites/010602/

If you ARE going to try the water this year then a tube would probably be a good idea to finish this snow season on. I know Charlie and Rob, they are great guys and wouldn't stear you wrong if they know what your short term goals for the kite are.

BTW, My offer to sell my Frenzy 7.3 is part of my poor attempt at humor. I love the kite. Hunter, If you see me you are welcome to use it for an hour or two. I don't think I would recommend the Frenzy for the water though.

Eric

[Tighe]

I got your humor Eric and was not indirectly saying anything regarding your reply. What I was indirectly saying I probably should say directly.

I do not think the Airblast or ARX kites are good first kites, specially in larger sizes. The 8.4 Airblast is a equal to a 11m in any other brand. Both kites are the highest aspect ratio kites on the market. Sorry guys, I don't think it safe or wise to sell anyone, let alone a kid such a kite. If you strongly dissagree contact me in person. If I am convinced otherwise I will revise this post.

My recommendations for a first kite would be as follows

Any low to moderate aspect ratio inflatable kite, 2 or 4 line, (with a 5th line attachment) size 5-9m (preferred option for water usage as well)(eg. Toro, FreeAir

Any foil 3-5m (Frenzy, B series, Blade, Jojo etc.) Bigger if you are going out in real light winds. Complete depowering allows you to bigger in lighter winds.

Maybe we should end this dialog before things go to astray.

[Hunter Welles]

Hey Eric, I was wondering, where do you go on those mountain boards? I have one of those but I have some trouble with keeping my feet in the bindings and have only briefly heard about people doing that. I will have to give it a shot this summer maybe.

[Hunter Welles]

Hey Eric I am not sure if I want to get that big of a kite. It is pretty big and in the light enough winds that I could use it I am not sure if anybody else will be out and stuff. I think that I may get that kite in the coming years just not now. I am thinking the B4 Or Frenzy 5. I like the Frenzy 5 right now because of 4 LINES!!! It just has a bigger range and that is something that I like about it because someday I will have the 10 differnet kites like all of you just I am not sure if my dad wants to buy me too many so versatility is something that I am looking for in the kite.

[Eric S]

Dood, If you can ever get out with us you can try out boards. We get them on the INTERNET. You can check out http://www.carveboard.com/ for the one I ride. IT ROCKS.

If you want to go extreeme, check out this pic from the Gorge.

http://www.downhaul.com/misc/030122/rob1.jpg

I drove my Carveboard down the snake no problem. It's impossible to describe how fun it is. You could just say "It's Fun!"


I rode this whole road on a carve board. There is no one on this road to screw with you. It rocks!

We use the same boards to kite in the parking lots in the summer. You just need a small kite to go crazy.

Hey Eric, I was wondering, where do you go on those mountain boards? I have one of those but I have some trouble with keeping my feet in the bindings and have only briefly heard about people doing that. I will have to give it a shot this summer maybe.

[Hunter Welles]

Hey Eric I do not ride on the same type of board. My mountain board is a MBS board for offroad and stuff.
http://www.mountainboard.com/
I have heard of guys that do this with this type of board i have never seen it though.

[Eric S]

I used a MBS "Spinal Tap" last year for awhile http://www.downhaul.com/freeride/010527 ... 010094.jpg It's the board on the road. We put some slicks on it and it works good for a kiteboard on the tar but I think the carveboard works better for carving and kiting on the tarmac.

I understand that you sail too. Some of the most fun we have before ice-out is putting sails on our landboards and ripping up parking lots. I think you should be able to do it with yours too. Here's my Carveboard with sail attached:

http://www.downhaul.com/landsail/020329 ... 290001.jpg

Make sure you leave enough space on the front of the board so you can tack. Tacking on a landboard over the tar at speed is one of the most agro moves you can do. It's a rush.

Sometimes we set up a course to race on with land sailing. I think Jeff A is the fastest. He's the guy in the white tee-shirt in http://www.downhaul.com/misc/020513/funhog1-low.mpg I'm the fat guy in the blue jacket.

Here is a panorama of the site. It's the Monti school parking lot when it's not being used. It rocks cause there is no one there on the weekends:

http://www.downhaul.com/panorama/monti-pan.jpg

I think one of the best things about a small foil in the summer is watching Coach rip up the parking lot on a B-3 and skateboard.

http://www.downhaul.com/landsail/011103 ... 030017.jpg

He rules, I wish I could rip like him! It's better to use a small, cheap foil to do this. If you get a tube you shouldn't try this cause we crash once and a while. POP!

Hunter, what ever kite you get this year, you are going to have a BALL!

K is for Kiting!

Hey Eric I do not ride on the same type of board. My mountain board is a MBS board for offroad and stuff.
http://www.mountainboard.com/
I have heard of guys that do this with this type of board i have never seen it though.

[Hunter Welles]

That is sweet. The windurfiung is really cool. It makes sense though and It makes me really want to try it. My mountian board has foot straps so it would be much more like snowboarding. It would be cool do it in some open feild so you could just rip. Also did you just drill a hole in the board and set it up so you can attach a sail. I could problably do that I think. I just would have to take off the foot straps.

[Leekley]

Hunter,
My recommended sail for any kiteskiier, boarder, surfer is the Wipika Airblast or new Amp.
Both kites have the "Reactive" Re-Launch available which is one of several patents Wipika has. The 5th line system is less user-friendly and does not get the kite to the side of the power-zone. (wind window)
As good as any new 4 line kite is, unless you can re-launch your kite yourself your f*cked. This is the 4th season of kite-skiing for me and that was one of the first lessons learned.
The Naish AR-5/7.5 was my first kite bought in January of 2000. It was the very first 4-line inflatable kite on the market. Wipika came out with their 4 line Airblast in 2001 after having discovered the difficulty in re-launching a high-aspect inflatable. I eventually converted all my Naish kites to the Wipika "Reactive" bridle system. Downside: The "Reactive" bridle is slower to react to the bar the bigger the kites get. No big deal.

[Eric S]

I saw Charlie and Vojta relanching a HUGE (like over 20M) Wipika AB on tuesday in really light wind. I was very impressed and Chuck kind of showed me how it worked. I dropped my Toro at the end of the day and couldn't get it back up. Relauch on the snow is huge no matter what kite you end up getting.

[Tighe]

Skill goes a lot farther than product. Both those guys are pretty skilled pilots.

The relaunch bridle is also available with the moderate aspect Hydro from Wipika, which is designed for beginner through pro ( versus the expert only design of the Airblast). Also you can easily rig up the reverse launch capability to any kite. Either via the rear lines ( plus pulleys) or a 5th line. Buying an inappropriate kite for this feature doesn't make sense.

The other downside of the Airblasts for learning is that the bridle creates very little bar pressure, which is what gives you feedback about where the kite is in the window. I flew the Airblast my second year of flying and I think it hindered my progress for this reason.

Don't get me wrong. The Airblasts are great kites... in skilled hands.

The only reason I am even debating this point is that many of these beginners are my students. I need to document my strong objection to the advice that high aspect ratio kites are good beginner kites. They turn extremely fast, they don't launch on the water without the reverse launch bridle which launches them in the power zone instead of the side of the window (how do you say body fling?), and their materials tend to be lighter in construction and less durable. I've said my piece and now will bow out of this discussion. In the future I may include this opinion in my waiver.

[Mike W]

Tighe is right. An Airblast was my first kite for water use, but I had spent 2 years on snow and one summer in a kite buggy first. Flying a kite was very natural for me at that point. I would not recommend the Airblast or any high AR kite for a beginner.

In addition, the reactive bridles are tricky to learn to use correctly, and they are potentially dangerous if used improperly. After a full season on Airblasts I had not yet mastered the art of reluaching the kite and getting it to the edge. Whenever I use the relanuch in strong wind I prepare to be yanked out of the water. I have kinda become used to that, but it can be very dangerous. My only water kiting injury to date came that way.

I still fly AB's because I love their performance, and I do like the pressureless bar and the sure (if sometimes dangerous) relaunch, but I would not recommend these kites for beginners. In fact, I have steered a few newer kiters away from the used one I am selling in classifieds.