Leashes

Chris B · Post by **Chris B** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:59 am

I’ve noticed a lot of people in the winter not using leashes, especially bows and foils. I just wanted to get a thread going on this topic.

Chris B · Post by **Chris B** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:03 pm

I have spent some time on them, but you bow/foil riders use them day in and out. What type secondary systems do you guys use.

SCOTT RIDOUT · Post by **SCOTT RIDOUT** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:07 pm

Leash always does not matter what you fly.

Tighe · Post by **Tighe** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:12 pm

What I stress over and over in the lessons is to always reacquaint your self with your safety system BEFORE you launch your kite. Take two seconds and ask yourself if something goes wrong, how am I going to turn off the power (break free from the Chicken loop), and if that doesn't work, how am I going to break free from the kite? This is especially true if it is someone else's kite or a demo kite because all systems are different, but not a bad idea to do even if it is your trusty kite you use every day. Just thinking it through may give you a slight advantage when all poop hits the fan.

So what does this have to do with leashes? Well it brings up a couple of issues I've come across which causes some concern.

~always use a leash with a Quick Release (QR) on it. If you attempt to kill the kite's power and for some reason it doesn't (tangle, line catch etc) you'll be flying the kite by one line as it most likely is spinning in a death spiral in the power zone. You'll need to be able to break free completely from this. Make sure you have a QR, on your side of the leash, and test it often (yes they do get stuck).

~ Don't attach a leash to your wrist. Rotator cuffs are just too fragile. If your leash has a wrist cuff figure out a way to attach it to your harness...and as mentioned above make sure you can still break free if needed.

~ Do not attach a leash to the webbing on Windsurfing Harnesses. I've seen a few people attach their leash to that nice convenient thin webbing behind the buckle on windsurfing harnesses. This webbing is just intended to hold down your strap after the buckle not hold a downed kite. It will tear off. If you're set on using a windsurfing harness make sure you have a stainess spreader bar and loop some leader line around the main webbing to hook your leash onto.

~ attaching your leash to a chicken loop with a QR on it will set your kite free if you ever have to break free from the chicken loop. I know this is common for some of the new school riders (suicide Leash) just be very aware of who/what is downwind of you, in case you had to break from from the kite.

~ there is a difference between flagging a kite and depowering a kite. If your leash depowers your kite, be aware that the kite could still generate a fair deal of pull, especially if on its LE downwind. If you flag the kite, most of the time this will completely kill the kites power.

Please use a leash, especially when on metro lakes. One loose kite taking out some other lake user or wrapping around a car and our access rights could be in question.

Sorry if I sound like I'm preaching on this topic but I'd feel horrible if someone got hurt by the thing that is intended to make kiting safer.

SCOTT RIDOUT · Post by **SCOTT RIDOUT** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:27 pm

Regardless of what you fly or where you fly it, leash always peoples, and that includes yuorself Tighe, I've seen you riding without a leash I don't know how many times, dangerous practice.

Tom L · Post by **Tom L** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:32 pm

I always use a front line flagging leash on my bows summer/winter. I've had to use it at least 3-4 times. It makes good sense & etiquette any way you look at it.

SCOTT RIDOUT · Post by **SCOTT RIDOUT** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:45 pm

Right on Tom L that's really the best thing to be doing especially on the Bow kites, just attaching the leash to the chicken loop on a bow is not as critical on the snow as lets say the water. The snow you have a little more leeway but still not much, unfortunately on the snow when you fall or bite it it's normally going to bruise or break something, on thewater being your usually more powered up just because you need more on the water it should be regular practice to use a leash on one of your front lines to totally kill the power when you need to or bust out of the chicken loop. Normally I ride with the leash right above the chicken loop so if I need to break out of the chicken loop I don't loose my kite all together. It comes down to a personal preference if your really going to use aleash or not but if I see people without one I usually ask them or remind them to use one, and if they don't have one I usually have an extra for them to use, last thing I ever want to happen is someone get hurt and ruin there rest of the year to ride or worse get killed? Leash's are cool and anyone who says that they are not are dorks!

Tighe · Post by **Tighe** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:52 pm

I know I admit it there have been times I have not used a leash in the past usually just cause I forgot. My bad.

drknap · Post by **drknap** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:15 pm

I always use a SS QR leash- attached to my CL. I think you pretty much have to have the leash attached to the CL if your doing rolls/spins as being attached to a front line ends up in twisting of the leash around the CL. I realize this is less than ideal as it does not kill the kite but can't figure out a better way to do it-less a fifth line which I'm not going to put on my waroos

I've seen several, and personally experienced, dealth spirals while attached to a front line on the TD. Also, I've seen a couple of people having problems with too short a leash while attached to the front lines of the TD.

Tighe · Post by **Tighe** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:52 pm

That's concerning Kurt. Are you sure the leash was attached to the front line? It's hard to imagine that that would do anything but flag the kite. (in high winds a flagged kite can spin on its way down) The only thing I have heard of which I think would be pretty rare is that if you have the bar at the right angle and pressing against the center lines and your clip is facing upward, a rear line can enter the clip. In which case when you deployed the leash you would also pull that rear line, putting the kite into a death spiral. It's hard to imagine that happening but there have been reports of it internationally. If that ever were to happen, this would be the time to break free from your kite.

Kurt,do you have any other details on these situations? It is the same setup on many of the bows/hybrids. I have seen some slick new ones that bring it all down below the bar.

As far the leash being too short, if you attach it to your spreader bar it keeps the leach aligned with the center of the bar and just taught enough to not be flapping about. I have noticed that if you attach it to the ring on the side of the harness it is too tight.

Anyone on TDs have this situation happen to them? Since the death spiral is such an unsafe situation, as well as the eventual loose kite, I'd like to investigate this further and see what is going on and see what we can do to prevent it. Post details here, or email me directly if you'ld rather not post.

chanrider · Post by **chanrider** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:30 pm

Tighe:

Below is an old post by Eric Bro which started some dialogue around where to clip the TD leash. Sorry for re-posting this Eric Bro, but it might be helpful to others!

Also for me when I had the leash clipped above the bar it has gotten wrapped around the bar and lines when down in the water creating and/or contributing to a tangle leading to death spiral and ejection. I now clip below the chicken loop.

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject: More on the TD self rescue, the safety leash

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have difficulty attaching my safety leash to the kite on the line with the stopper ball once the kite is flying. It's too far a reach, and I've had the kite stall, turn inside out, and crash while trying to pull the center lines down close enough so that I could clip on to the ring. Is there another way to do this?

Ok Ok, with an assisted launch I clip the leash in place before launching, no problem. But when I'm self launching I've found the dam leash gets twisted around the other lines during ascent if everything isn't perfectly aligned before letting the kite float away during the launch.

Today at Big Marine Lake in Washington Co I was launching my TD 12m with the leash in place in 20kt wind parallel to shore (second mistake). Sure enough, the leash got all wrapped around the lines and the kite immediately went into flipping, I completely lost control of it, and it proceeded to yank me in violent fits to the side AWAY from shore! Between dunkings I then released the leash (third mistake) thinking that would allow the lines to straighten and I could get control. As the lines were already severely twisted that had no effect. As I was now being dragged sideways out from shore I finally pulled the chicken loop release. The tumbling kite started it's 3 mile journey towards the northern shoreline.

Some yelling for help brought a fishing boat (I love those guys!) and I was able to recover both kite and board, and spagetti, with no prop damage, though it was a genuine hastle for the poor fisherman. No babes on the boat..

Is there a better way to connect the leash to the kite during self launch?

"Oh tis awe inspiring to see one's death before one's eyes.."

Eric Bro

Back to top

Eric Bro

Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Stillwater, Minn
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, I did try flagging the kite but somehow, in its fully powered, flipping state it was pulling too hard and I couldn't pull a line toward me. And I wasn't about to risk getting a line wrapped around me somewhere!

Eric Bro

Tom L · Post by **Tom L** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:59 pm

I think on the Bow kites when there is much of tangle, prior to trying to flag the kite, it may not flag well. If your lines are nice and straight prior to flagging, the kites will flag better. This is a kind of a dichotomy, being that flagging a bow works least when you need it most.

I gues in a bad situation it is always smart to keep an open mind, don't panic, and let the whole thing go if you feel like you are in danger. Carry a hook knife too.

Attachment techniques and systems end up being kite specific. I always use a spinnning leash which solves one issue.

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:10 pm

The Frenzy does not come with a leash, and it advertises leashless riding. There are two systems designed to totally depower the kite on activation. I always use a leash in summer with my bows, but I have found the safeties live up to the hype on the Frenzy/Manta and you really don't need one.If it was not 100% on safety activation I'd use a leash, but it is, so I don't.

newms · Post by **newms** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:34 pm

Pardon my ignorance, as I am very new to all this, but on my HQ Montana which has very similar bar and safety systems as a Ozone Frenzy, How would you propose to attach a safety leash to kite like this?

Both manufacturers tout these designs as leash-less. The need for a third safety feature has me a bit confused, but I welcome the extra safety if implemented properly.

On these kites the primary safety is the “top-hat” which releases the flying lines causing the kite to flag out on its trialing edge. The secondary safety just cuts the kite loose.

It seams that a leash would only come into play if the secondary safety was activated or if the bar was yanked from my hands and I accidently came out of the chicken loop at the same time. I will never intentionally ride unhooked

I’ve seen some discussion of this and attempted work arounds:

http://www.mackite.com/forums/index.php ... 3945&st=0&

any thoughts?

Chris B · Post by **Chris B** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:37 pm

Steve, what if the CL comes out of the spreader bar or shackle?

Mike B · Post by **Mike B** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:41 pm

On an Ozone Frenzy/Manta (04 -07 only) a leash is a redundant secondary safety. If you you use a leash hooked up to the back line cross webbing and release out of the chicken loop, it will not totally depower the kite just put it in park mode (the kite will land but still pull). The primary "top hat" (or velcro in '04) safety will totaly depower the kite and works much better than a leash. I belive that on the '03 you do need a leash.

All that said, you still need to be able to totally get away from your kite. Sometimes even the best systems can go bad (lines tangled, knotted, or kite twisted). Make sure that you can quick release out of the chicken loop and let the kite go.

Happy unleashed Ozone riding.

Chris B · Post by **Chris B** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:41 pm

I have had times when the CL has fallen out of my spreader bar. What if someone wanted to do any unhooked moves?

Chris B · Post by **Chris B** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:46 pm

The only way I can see a kite without a safety leash is with some kind of locking shackle, but then there is no way to really get rid of the kite, so that really isn’t an option either.

Mike B · Post by **Mike B** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:54 pm

If I was riding an Ozone unhooked, I would attach the leash to the chicken loop. It will not depower the kite if you let go - do you want the kite to totally depower if you miss a handle pass 10+ feet up over a frozen lake? For that matter, do you even want to do handle passes 10+ feet up over a frozen lake?

I shackle into the chicken loop because I think it is more secure than that pain in the but chicken-bone setup. My trusty shackle has never let loose in 5 years. If it does, I hope I have a good grip on the bar!

When you are shckled into the chicken loop, you can stilll get away from the kite by pulling the chicken loop quick release.

Chris B · Post by **Chris B** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:57 pm

I was thinking more like pop'n load tricks or unhooked kiteloops.