What Kite should I get
Moderator: MK
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Hunter Welles
- Posts: 336
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:06 pm
- Location: Wayzata
What Kite should I get
I am Hunter and my birthday is coming up and I would like to get a sail. I have taken a lesson from Teigh and he suggested Windwing 440, slingshot 4 or a Frenzy 5 meter if they had it. I have found out that they do have a 5.0 in the Frenzy and that because it is 4 line so I can depower it. I am only around 5 feet and somewhere around 100 pounds so please give me a suggestion on what I should get.
Welcome to the Tribe, Hunter. You took to kiting like a fish to water. You're a natural...and you know your limits....a good combo.
You've heard my suggestions so hopefully others will chirp in. A few other details that may help others in their recommendations:
He's on a snowboard and is very comfortable on it.
Most likely will be flying in lighter winds
Has some windsurfing experience.
Here was my thinking.
The B4 is great cause it has a smaller diameter bar, and has the simplicity of 2 lines ( though once you put the brake line on it is 3 lines)
The Frenzy will probably have more range, allow for on the fly depowering, though have a bit more complexity with four lines. (not that much more than the 3 line B4 though)
What do you guys think?
You've heard my suggestions so hopefully others will chirp in. A few other details that may help others in their recommendations:
He's on a snowboard and is very comfortable on it.
Most likely will be flying in lighter winds
Has some windsurfing experience.
Here was my thinking.
The B4 is great cause it has a smaller diameter bar, and has the simplicity of 2 lines ( though once you put the brake line on it is 3 lines)
The Frenzy will probably have more range, allow for on the fly depowering, though have a bit more complexity with four lines. (not that much more than the 3 line B4 though)
What do you guys think?
Tighe
Hey Hunter.
I just started this winter on a Windwing440 (4.5m). It was the perfect size for a beginner. It looks like the Slingshot B4 is approximately the same price, but the 440 is bigger (4.5m v/s 4m). The Frenzy 5m is more expensive but it has a lot more room to grow with you as you become more experienced. A month after I started with my 440, I was begging for a bigger kite, so I got a Frenzy 7.3. I think that you can configure a Frenzy as a 2 or 4 line kite, so you can start with the 2 line config and move up to the 4 line setting. Looks like you are pretty light though, so I would be careful with a big kite.
If you are feeling pretty comfortable with a kite, I would say that you could go for the Frenzy. If you catch me on the lake, I can let you use my 440 until you get confident enough to deal with a more complex kite like the the Frenzy.
Happy Birthday.
Denis
I just started this winter on a Windwing440 (4.5m). It was the perfect size for a beginner. It looks like the Slingshot B4 is approximately the same price, but the 440 is bigger (4.5m v/s 4m). The Frenzy 5m is more expensive but it has a lot more room to grow with you as you become more experienced. A month after I started with my 440, I was begging for a bigger kite, so I got a Frenzy 7.3. I think that you can configure a Frenzy as a 2 or 4 line kite, so you can start with the 2 line config and move up to the 4 line setting. Looks like you are pretty light though, so I would be careful with a big kite.
If you are feeling pretty comfortable with a kite, I would say that you could go for the Frenzy. If you catch me on the lake, I can let you use my 440 until you get confident enough to deal with a more complex kite like the the Frenzy.
Happy Birthday.
Denis
I'd get a kite that I could beat up on a little as my first one. I think the windwings have a good price point. The slingshots are nice kites too. There is always a market for the 3-4M size as that's the one people are learning on first. It's also a good kite to keep as a higher wind kite later.
Plus you will learn alot of stuff with a 2 line foil like how to keep the kite under control with your boards edging. It will make riding a sheetable kite that much sweeter.
Plus you will learn alot of stuff with a 2 line foil like how to keep the kite under control with your boards edging. It will make riding a sheetable kite that much sweeter.
depowered
Hunter,
Happy Birthday! I started with Denis this winter as well and I would second the frustration of wanting/needing a bigger kite right after getting started. Unfortunately these kites are not cheap and it is frustrating when you don't have enough power to go out and enjoy the wind when you want to. I would definately try and fly the 440 and the Frenzy before buying so you know/see the difference.
Is there a way to rig the frenzy so that when it is in the 2-line config you fly it depowered? If you could figure out how to do this then you could learn on it depowered and then start using it a full power when you are ready.
Eric/Denis? You guys fly these kites - do you think that it could be done?
Michael
Happy Birthday! I started with Denis this winter as well and I would second the frustration of wanting/needing a bigger kite right after getting started. Unfortunately these kites are not cheap and it is frustrating when you don't have enough power to go out and enjoy the wind when you want to. I would definately try and fly the 440 and the Frenzy before buying so you know/see the difference.
Is there a way to rig the frenzy so that when it is in the 2-line config you fly it depowered? If you could figure out how to do this then you could learn on it depowered and then start using it a full power when you are ready.
Eric/Denis? You guys fly these kites - do you think that it could be done?
Michael
I'd get a used 2/4 convertable inflatable kite; maybe naish size 8. That way you can learn all the basics of flying, and then have a great 4 line kite to use in the water come summer time.
Guys you got to think long term for Hunter. He won't have too much money (I'm assuming) and needs an all purpose kite.
Look on iwindsurf.com for used equipment, or check out the classifieds on this website. Try to buy a used kite from someone local so you can check it out before you buy it. If you're looking for new, I know that Wipika makes a FreeAir convertable that is a great kite. I believe Slingshot has come out with a good convertable as well. Anyone?
Hunter, as you've already seen, an inflattable can be flown in the winter. Just be careful about crashing too many times on the snow, and draggin it over sharp ice. Just remember that it's okay to drop the bar inorder to save the kite.
Happy Birthday!
Jeff
Guys you got to think long term for Hunter. He won't have too much money (I'm assuming) and needs an all purpose kite.
Look on iwindsurf.com for used equipment, or check out the classifieds on this website. Try to buy a used kite from someone local so you can check it out before you buy it. If you're looking for new, I know that Wipika makes a FreeAir convertable that is a great kite. I believe Slingshot has come out with a good convertable as well. Anyone?
Hunter, as you've already seen, an inflattable can be flown in the winter. Just be careful about crashing too many times on the snow, and draggin it over sharp ice. Just remember that it's okay to drop the bar inorder to save the kite.
Happy Birthday!
Jeff
Good points. I can't remember why we stopped considering the tube kites. Did you think you wouldn't do it in summer Hunter? If you are going to do it in summer as well and you don't want 2 sets so kites, a winter set and a summer set....then inflatables are the way to go.
I was thinking this morning that I was leaning more toward the B4 as your best option ( assuming winter only usage) The bar is narrow. And even though there would be 3 lines you don't necessarily have to be attached to any of them, which would allow you to do handle passes behind the back etc. Might work better with the snowboard, skateboard style you may have. There is the fixed harness line to hook into when you want as well. With the Frenzy you have the adjustment strap to depower ( think adjustable outhaul in windsurfing terms) and the chicken loop for on-the-fly adjustment ( think sheeting in and out on a sail WS terms). In order to do the latter you have to be hooked in to the loop preventing handle passes and the like. You can fly the Frenzy without using the loop and just trim the kite when needed with the adjustment strap. Also if a gust came you could hook in and depower it more, though most I think ride full time in the loop. Confused?... sorry. That's why maybe staying simple.... 2 line B4, might be a good start. After a dozen sessions you'll have a much better idea of what kind of quiver you might want to build, ie. 2 line, four line, open cell foil, closed cell foil, inflatable....
The winter is rapidly coming to a close. The main thing is to get something and get out and enjoy what we have left. None of the options presented, the 3 foils or a small tube kite, would be a bad choice.
I was thinking this morning that I was leaning more toward the B4 as your best option ( assuming winter only usage) The bar is narrow. And even though there would be 3 lines you don't necessarily have to be attached to any of them, which would allow you to do handle passes behind the back etc. Might work better with the snowboard, skateboard style you may have. There is the fixed harness line to hook into when you want as well. With the Frenzy you have the adjustment strap to depower ( think adjustable outhaul in windsurfing terms) and the chicken loop for on-the-fly adjustment ( think sheeting in and out on a sail WS terms). In order to do the latter you have to be hooked in to the loop preventing handle passes and the like. You can fly the Frenzy without using the loop and just trim the kite when needed with the adjustment strap. Also if a gust came you could hook in and depower it more, though most I think ride full time in the loop. Confused?... sorry. That's why maybe staying simple.... 2 line B4, might be a good start. After a dozen sessions you'll have a much better idea of what kind of quiver you might want to build, ie. 2 line, four line, open cell foil, closed cell foil, inflatable....
The winter is rapidly coming to a close. The main thing is to get something and get out and enjoy what we have left. None of the options presented, the 3 foils or a small tube kite, would be a bad choice.
Tighe
Since Hunter is under 100lbs I suspect that he will always have a "kite crew". Lack of assistance is what really keeps me away from tubes in the winter.
I'll put forth yesterday as an example. I only saw one solo relaunch by
Scott out of many assisted flips.
WORD: Don't even think about learning how to kite with an inflatable unless you have a crew (mom and dad in Hunter's case) to relaunch your kite. Your time will be better spent flying a kite rather than waiting for some random guy to come by and flip your kite over for you.
Here's another way to think about it as far as I'm concerned:
I'll give you one dollar for helping me with getting "my foil" ready for lanuch for every 10 times your "inflatable" gets stuck and needs help launching. I think we'll come out about even. I'll also be a better kiter because I'll have to manuver my kite to get your kite to flip under power.
Blah, Blah, Blah
I'll put forth yesterday as an example. I only saw one solo relaunch by
Scott out of many assisted flips.
WORD: Don't even think about learning how to kite with an inflatable unless you have a crew (mom and dad in Hunter's case) to relaunch your kite. Your time will be better spent flying a kite rather than waiting for some random guy to come by and flip your kite over for you.
Here's another way to think about it as far as I'm concerned:
I'll give you one dollar for helping me with getting "my foil" ready for lanuch for every 10 times your "inflatable" gets stuck and needs help launching. I think we'll come out about even. I'll also be a better kiter because I'll have to manuver my kite to get your kite to flip under power.
Blah, Blah, Blah
jeff wrote:
Guys you got to think long term for Hunter. He won't have too much money (I'm assuming) and needs an all purpose kite.
Jeff
I am able to relaunch me LEI even without the 5th line. IMHO, I think it is easier then relaunching in the water. 1) get out of skis/snowboard and just point the bar at the kite. 2) kite will move to side of window. 3) keep pointing and wait for wind to tip kite on side 4) Keep having fun!
I think learning to relaunch an LEI in the winter is about as challenging as learning to relaunch an LEI in the summer.
Hunter... LEI vs. FOIL is a discussion that has been going on forever and will never be solved. You'll just have to decide for yourself. Get out and borrow as many peoples kites as possible!
Jeff
I think learning to relaunch an LEI in the winter is about as challenging as learning to relaunch an LEI in the summer.
Hunter... LEI vs. FOIL is a discussion that has been going on forever and will never be solved. You'll just have to decide for yourself. Get out and borrow as many peoples kites as possible!
Jeff
Yeah that's perty severe on my part. I think the 5th line thing would be the way to go. Sorry Tighe, I didn't see you relaunch but I know you can do it. In the case of a beginner the kite will be down alot and you will probably trash your LE relaunching so many times especially if you use the tug on one line method.
Don't get me wrong, I like flying LEI more than foil, even the new foils but the current LEI designs that I've seen are not meant to be face down on the snow and ice. On the other hand, most foils take this possition in stride.
Don't get me wrong, I like flying LEI more than foil, even the new foils but the current LEI designs that I've seen are not meant to be face down on the snow and ice. On the other hand, most foils take this possition in stride.
Tighe wrote:You exaggerate Eric. I relaunched 3 times solo yesterday. Yes it is hard when the wind is light. Powered up it is pretty easy. A 5th line pretty much eliminates that problem.
Nuff said. Foils are more user friendly in the winter full stop.
tighe
Yeah you are right Tighe. This topic drifted and I'm probably the one that caused it. Hunter probably doesn't know about the fun kiters have with LEI/Foil debates yet. Get some popcorn and read this one!
http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4862
Hunter, I belive the best way to know what kite you should get is "try before you buy".
You have solicited opinions and you got them. They may or may not serve you well.
You, and anyone here, are welcome to try the kites I have:
2002 North Toro 16M
2003 Ozone Frenzy 7.3M
2002 Flexifoil BladeII 4M
Send email to eric (at) downhaul.com
P.S. You might notice that I have an LEI, sheetable foil and 2 line foil. Each type has there pluses and minuses.
Good Luck Hunter!
http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4862
Hunter, I belive the best way to know what kite you should get is "try before you buy".
You have solicited opinions and you got them. They may or may not serve you well.
You, and anyone here, are welcome to try the kites I have:
2002 North Toro 16M
2003 Ozone Frenzy 7.3M
2002 Flexifoil BladeII 4M
Send email to eric (at) downhaul.com
P.S. You might notice that I have an LEI, sheetable foil and 2 line foil. Each type has there pluses and minuses.
Good Luck Hunter!
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Hunter Welles
- Posts: 336
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:06 pm
- Location: Wayzata
I am pretty sure that I can get out on thursday but I won't have a kite. I am not sure which I should get. I do not see myself going in the summer and as you said earlier the winter is quickly coming to an end. You also said I will know what to get after about a dozen sessions, well, i am still at 1. I do not think I will get the bladder because I am still not the best at handling the kite and I drop it a lot. And I am scared it could pop. I also do not know how much I could grow over the summer. I could grow a foot and end up with a kite that is way to small for me. There also could be some great kite that comes out next winter that I pass and end up with the wrong one. So I am hoping that I can barrow like a 4 meter kite on thursday. I can not get there before 3:30 or 4 so I am not sure if that is too late or whatever.
New Kite For Hunter
Hunter,
I've been trying to get Billy T. into kiteskiing but to no avail. Please thank him for lending us his snowmobile trailer for the Red Bull Kite Freeze.
Everyone has used gear for sale and used may be the best way to go. Inspect the kite seams, bar and lines for frays, nicks, etc. Make sure you fly before you buy. Lines may need to be replaced. I gave your mom a catalog for you to look at.
Since you snowboard you need to be able to get the kite off the ground without frustration. Skiing is obviously easier when it comes to re-launching. You need to be self-sufficient. There won't always be someone to help you.
My lean is toward an inflatable since you are going to want to kite to learn with in the summer eventually. Secondly a self-launch capability is crucial to your enjoyment. Third, A 4 line kite will give you greater wind range over a 2 line. Remember, you don't need as big a kite for the winter as you do in the summer. A kite for 12 - 20 mph will probably be your most used. You shouldn't be learning in +20 mph winds. You'll need another kite for that day.
Charlie - 473-6737
I've been trying to get Billy T. into kiteskiing but to no avail. Please thank him for lending us his snowmobile trailer for the Red Bull Kite Freeze.
Everyone has used gear for sale and used may be the best way to go. Inspect the kite seams, bar and lines for frays, nicks, etc. Make sure you fly before you buy. Lines may need to be replaced. I gave your mom a catalog for you to look at.
Since you snowboard you need to be able to get the kite off the ground without frustration. Skiing is obviously easier when it comes to re-launching. You need to be self-sufficient. There won't always be someone to help you.
My lean is toward an inflatable since you are going to want to kite to learn with in the summer eventually. Secondly a self-launch capability is crucial to your enjoyment. Third, A 4 line kite will give you greater wind range over a 2 line. Remember, you don't need as big a kite for the winter as you do in the summer. A kite for 12 - 20 mph will probably be your most used. You shouldn't be learning in +20 mph winds. You'll need another kite for that day.
Charlie - 473-6737
Kook
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Hunter Welles
- Posts: 336
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:06 pm
- Location: Wayzata
I totaly agree that I will later be doing it during the summer but I still have to learn a little more during the winter before I go in the summer. In the summer it has to do with planing and everyting. I am still working on just turning and getting it all down so I don't think I wil be on the water this summer-I can do stick to windsurfing during the summer for now. + by the time that I will be doing it on the water it I could grow a foot, then my sail being useless except for high winds, not too common.