New to windsurfing...need ideas and affordable equipment

[Ripper]

Just returned from Belize where I did some windsurfing. I like regular surfing better...and I suck at windsurfing so far...but it seems like the best option here in the great plains, on local lakes.

I'm interested in feedback about where to get used beginner equipment, ideas on what is appropriate, where to hear about fellow windsurfers to meet at spots and get better (especially fellow beginners to allow me to learn and have a "2nd" for safety).

It appears that this site is the spot for what's hot/where...but can I get feedback on getting started affordably? That's the reason I won't take a very serious look at kite boarding...it's just terribly expensive and the learning curve is too much time consumption for me. I just have too many drains on my time and finances to spend that kind of cash...afterall...baby needs new shoes.

Jack

[Matt V]

You are definitely in the right place for getting info on windsurfing gear. There are quite a few of us who still have some windsurfing gear sitting around since we started kiting. But I must caution you about getting super "CHEAP" gear. Older longboards that are plastic and heavy are not what will keep you in the sport. I know because I give free windsurfing lessons at my local sailing club here in western Iowa. Most of my students that opt for the cheap route do not continue in the sport. Older longboards are heavy, extremely long, and hard to transport. So the temptation to go out and have a blast is often overruled by the prospect of dealing with the unexciting hassle of transporting your gear.

The best route to get into windsurfing is to get a "cross-over" board that can be used for Stand Up Paddling (SUP) and windsurfing. This is the new breed of longboard that will give you more time on the water and a greater wind range than a shortboard or beginners board. If you have had lessons, there is a chance you were on a similar board. But the short and wide beginners boards that you may also have taken a lesson on, could be good for you too. Especially if you intend to get a friend into the sport or make it a family outing at the lake.

My favorite long board is my Mistral "Pacifico" (2007). It is a perfect SUP board and an all wind windsurfing board. It lacks a centerboard, but it's width makes up for that shortcoming - though it is not as suited to making it upwind as fast as a board with a centerboard. Every one that borrows this board loves how it jibes easily. Only the snobbiest shortboard wind snobs complain a bit about it's top end speed.

If you want a good board that holds it's value, look into getting a Kona. Being a race class, it will always have a following. Though it is right at the minimum width to SUP comfortably (slightly tippy), it has boxy rails that give some decent secondary stability. The duck tail is really nice for transforming the ride into a shortboard like feeling once on a high plane.

Shortboards are great for the ultra serious rider, but even the larger volume boards will be a bit on the technical side at the beginning and will limit your fun on the iffy days when you sometimes only have just enough to plane.

Sail wise, you should be looking for anything that is of the newer "fat head" style". Older triangle tops will work at low speeds, but they will take more skill to use and be much less forgiving, especially at higher speeds. Also, just due to age, an old triangle top may not be reliable.

My last piece of advice is to get a trainer kite. You don't have to kite, but you should understand a little about kiters when you are around them. Since a large number of kiters used to be windsurfers, they are great to talk to about launch spots and other questions you may have. Having some trainer kite skills will help you when you are around them. If you ski, you can also use that trainer kite to move you around on hardpack snow.

In my opinion, windsurfing has a much more drawn out learning curve. It took me years to learn to make little 2-3ft jumps on a shortboard when conditions were absolutely perfect. With kiteboarding, I was jumping 6ft almost as soon as I could make it upwind. So the drawn out learning curve of windsurfing means that it takes longer to advance, especially if a shortboard is your goal. Kiteboardings's "steep" learning curve generally refers to it being overwhelming at first, but progression being quick and easier.

There are many other pluses and minuses to kiteboarding vs windsurfing. They are too numerous to ever hope to get into one post. But what ever you choose, the more you put in to it, the more you get out of it.

[JRN]

I USED TO DO BOTH. IMHO: The learning curve is alot steeper in windsurfing, the equipment less costly than
sail-bored-ing, kites take up less room, have a lot larger wind range, have the light wind advantage, travel easier, and kiting is just more fun overall. Not to mention the kitechicks are ALOT hotter...right girls?

[Drvermin]

I know a lot of former windsurfers. A few of them have crossed over to kitesurfing. One of them used to organize the Mil Lacs crossing and he used to go to The Gorge for windsurfing excursions on a regular basis. It seems to be a dying sport for a variety of reasons.

[Piotr]

OMG. And I thought that this site was about positive stoke and energy. Do you guys own stock in companies selling kitesurfing gear that you speak so negatively about windsurfing and try to discourage the guy so much?

Piotr

[stevenP]

I've been windsurfing since the mid 80's and I still love it. I also water and winter snow kite. I love those sports also. I mostly windsurf in MN because I can do it quickly after work @ Calhoun and not have to drive too far. As for winter kiting, it is a perfect sport those who like to ski or snowboard & live in MN without mountains. We have plenty of frozen lakes and the sport is pretty approachable and a great way to learn kiting (take a lesson).

As for used gear, I recommend The House spring swap in May. Here is the link from last year.
http://www.the-house.com/swapmeeting.html

Enjoy & welcome to the sport(s).

sPk

[JRN]

"BE GLAD WE'RE NOT IN CONGRESS, at least here we can agree to not agree. I didn't mean to denegrate anyone's choice for fun, just giving my opinion. I windsurfed for many years and enjoyed it. I still have an ice sailor that uses windsurf sails, and it is a BLAST! I hope we can continue to discuss this rationally at the swap. I still have my 1997 bic veloce, a 105 liter sliver of liquid excitement, got it for my 38th birthday from Pam. It now resides in a place of honor on my board rack. If I ever sell it, she has promised make me a eunuch in short order. That is another reason that I LOVE MY BIC! " COPYRIGHT jrn

[Drvermin]

OMG. And I thought that this site was about positive stoke and energy. Do you guys own stock in companies selling kitesurfing gear that you speak so negatively about windsurfing and try to discourage the guy so much?
Piotr

Sorry I came across as a Debby Downer. I live next to a lake and 10+ years ago I used to see windsurfers out on it regularly but there hasn't been a one in the last 7+ years. Same with my friend that lives on Big Carnelion Lake. He used to windsurf but lost his gear in a garage fire and he said all his riding buddies have evaporated from the sport. He never replaced his gear.

Sure the gear for kiting is more expensive but I think it is more portable and around here it allows for more riding because there is both winter and summer riding.

There is a video I saw that shows the evolution of kitesurfing. During a pivotal point in its history there was a guy at a windsurfing competition in Hawaii and as everyone was waiting for the wind to get going for the competition to start, this guy on his kite was tearing the place up. Several people on the video commented that on that day Kitesurfing became the next big wind sport.

Here is the video. It is a very interesting video.

http://www.sbckiteboard.com/video_displ ... OF-A-SPORT

[Matt V]

No apologies necessary! I feel your pain for windsurfing as a whole. We are not selling cars here, so negatives as well as positives, must be addressed in normal discussion.

Windsurfing would be in its renaissance if it were not for kiteboarding's popularity coupled with the evolution and subsequent entrenchment of the "Shortboard" mentality in windsurfing. This renaissance was very possible due to the SUP/Longboard (greater than 10'-6" long, greater width than 70cm wide) products that made windusurfing fun for everyone again. These boards hit the market around 2005-2007. The With these boards you can plane, jibe, displacement sail, freestyle (non aerial), teach beginners, and SUP. These boards easily capture the average beginners fancy and keep their interest in much the same way the older, narrow longboards made windsurfing so popular in the beginning. This is because a SUP/Longboard has a broader wind range, with 2-4 sail rigs, than 95% of kiters quivers. Being wider than the old narrow longboards, they could transition from displacement sailing to planing seamlessly. This new wide longboard concept had the potential to change the mentality of "SHORTBOARD SHORTBOARD, SHORTBOARD!!!" that was killing the sport of windsurfing for beginners and intermediates. Unfortunately for windsurfing and all of us who hold onto it, it was too little-too late to increase the numbers of windsurfers. Around this same time frame, bow kites were becoming available and kitesurfing became more beginner friendly on inland waters.

I was a late comer to windsports having ZERO experience or even understanding of sailing prior to 2007. In my research, I had read that windsurfing was a dying sport even back then. But I was determined to do it. So much so, that I purchased a new beginners board and 2 beginner/intermediate rigs right off the bat. After gaining enough experience to stay up wind easily, I met up with some other windsurfers who were completely surprised to have a brand new windsurfer in their area. Back then we had 5 hardcore windsurfers out every day possible. Though there were a few stragglers ranging from beginner to old pro's, most of them lacked or had lost the zeal for windsurfing. Kiting at the time, was still dragging it's heels with C-kites that made handling inland winds much more challenging. But with bow kites becoming available, the future was written for a surge in inland kiting and a decline in windsurfing participation. So I chose to get a trainer kite and a snowboard. As I progressed in both snowkiting and windsurfing, I was able to compare the two side by side as I gained skill in each.

Windsurfing was extremely difficult to get a feel for. It felt like it always took 120% of my brain power. When I did something wrong and crashed, I could not always figure out what the mistake was until my skill increased many levels above making that mistake. I really miss the skill that windsurfing took. It was a very flat learning curve since it took many hours of sailing to gain even small skills. Any time I look out at the windsurfers at our local lake now, I realize that the "only kited" guys watching have no sense of the skill they are seeing on the simple act of a jibe. A back roll with a windsurfer? Much more skill (and practice time) is express in that move than anyone's kite trick I have ever witnessed in person. For me, the pure skill that windsurfing takes is why I hold onto my gear and even give lessons. Another reason is the greater wind range of windsurfing. Kitesurfing may have the ability to plane in a few mph lighter wind, given the right equipment and steady wind. But windsurfing can go in higher winds that typically become too unsteady to kite around here. And if you count displacement sailing with a longboard, you can windsurf in much less wind than you can kite inland on lakes. No, displacement sailing is not the most exciting, but it gets you out on the water building skills for higher winds and their associated "lulls". In these same winds that you are "just out on the water" you can easily make it upwind even without a dagger board or the ability to plane a windsurfer. With kiteboarding, if you don't plane, you get blown down wind to a typically unfriendly shore to take out you kite on someones dock. No ammount of skill you achieve, or equipment you buy that is usable in weed infested waters, will get up wind on a kite when you have lulls of 4-5mph. Again, you can go anywhere with a floater windsurfboard in this low wind and be ready for the next gust. Truly, with windsurfing's wind range, it is the more versatile of the sports. But versatility is not everything to me.

Snowkiting, and later, water kiting were different for me. The focus for both, even given new equipment for the time, was always on "am I going to die or worse, wreck my kite". While snow was easy-peasy with foils, water kiting with inflatables limited the number of lakes you could kite on. Launching and landing was the biggest issue and took the most skill at the beginning. Other things like jumping, gliding short drops on snow, and even backrolls, came quicker than I could have imagined. Thus the learning curve was steep. Very difficult to overcome the basics at first, but they were quickly overcome and advancement was made in a short amount of time. Brainpower wise, kitesurfing only took up 70-80% and even allowed me to day dream while just cruising. Not one crash has ever left me wondering what went wrong. Kiting seems slower in that "Uh-oh!" moment and I always seem to feel what is going wrong as it is happening. Over all, it seems that kiting is the quicker path to looking cool. The poor "only windsurfed" guys never generate any interest in what they are doing while sailing along side us kiters. Every bystander that comes up to us is 100% focused on kiting. Kind of makes me sad knowing that the 2 advanced windsurfers out here have a few times more skill that us top local kiters but get no credit for it. I feel like kiting has that sense of accomplishment that is more public or voyeristic. You get to share in the awe of the successful completion of a jump or trick. But I still enjoy the uninspiring feeling of just slashing small waves even if it does not really show off what kiting is capable of.

So why do I kite? On snow it is because it is the only thing going. That, and it is more fun to snowkite on terrain than any thing I have ever done - pants on or off. For water kiting, I almost quit. I was truly ready to sell my new kite gear after 1 full year of focusing on it, even though I was having a great time and making quick progress. But it was just not holding my interest with twin-tip kiteboards regardless of the jumping potential and voyeuristic attention it got at our local lakes. Only at the last moment on my last ditch effort did I chose to give kiteboarding one more chance with a piece of new gear. That piece of new gear happened to be a short, medium/wide, quad finned North "Whip" surfboard. Again, I found the learning curve steep with this board. 2 spring months yielded only 9 successful jibes on my local lake. Then 2 days out of town with it in steady winds at a windsurfing meet (too hung over to windsurf), and my jibe total was up to 100+. The feel of a surfboard was more than I could have imagined. Now it took skill to ride with a kite, and the board felt like a windsurfboard with more maneuverability than even my 84l shortboard (I am 100kilos). Actually, it felt more like what windurfing was supposed to - or rather trying to be with "sinker" shortboards. Kiting a surfboard is a windsurfing sinker shortboard feel that can take you out in medium winds and allow you to surf swell, small wind waves of only 12inches, and boat wakes. The epileptic personality of a small quad finned board shaped to make a mountain out of a mole hill wave, recaptured almost 90% of my brain power. This meant no more day dreaming while kiteboarding. I must admit that on those flatter kite days, I sometimes put the kite low in the back of the window, and pretend my bar is a windsurfing boom.

[JimPat]

Both sports are fun!!!!!!!! Don't worry about the expense for now. Spend some time watching youtube videos of both sports and you may be attracted more to one than the other. The swap at the "HOUSE" is the way to go, tons of used gear. Again, don't let cost be your determining factor!!!!!! Matt has some great thoughts with the combo sport board, however, I have found that things that try to do activities that are completely different, never do well at either!!!! Around the year 2000, two guys showed up at a windsurfing race with a very short very wide (100cm) and everyone laughed at the "pig" of a board. At the end of the day everyone wanted to know why that board was screaming fast compared to the traditional longer and narrower boards! SUP boards are longer heavier and narrower than what you want for windsurfing. The wider windsurfing board will be less tippy when learning and it is a huge fun factor. The shorter profile will get the board quickly onto plane which becomes a huge fun factor once you've experienced planing! Since this technology is around 14 years old there are plenty of used, inexpensive boards ,as well as sails. Matt is right on, suggesting the flat or chopped top sails. The old triangular sails are not worth the frustration and these newer sails are cheap to find in the used world. Unfortunately, the old-time windsurfers didn't bring the new technology to the Olympics and now the sport has been removed. Watch a youtube video of current Formula board windsurfing racing. The speed is amazing!!!!!! Alpine skiing also went short and wide and fortunately, the ski racing world also went short and wide!!!!!!!!!!! It is true that you will have 2-3 times more opportunities in MN to SUP than windsurf. You can SUP anytime, but windsurfing requires at least @ 15mph wind.