Light Wind Kite Suggestions

[markdbliss]

Are there any kites that are good in "low" wind conditions. I'm describing low wind as 7-10mph. I'd like to go snow kiting only, but not all days are prime conditions over 13mph, which is when I break out my Ozone foil kites.

I think I heard that Slingshot machine 17.5s were good in conditions like this? Help?

[Dave Z]

I still use an '06 Cabrinha Crossbow. It's easy to launch and fly in 5-10 mph on ice and snow. Once the wind hits 10-12 you can start boosting. If you can find one on the cheap you'll get your money's worth.

[JRN]

The GIANT slingys were great, but most old C-kites of that vintage are now 6 to 7 or more yrs. old, and probably in rough shape. I wouldn't buy one on- line without a money back guarantee. I tried a BEST BFK 17 on the snow, but couldn't edge hard enough to maintain my heading, once the wind picked up. I'd look for something with enough depower to handle a wider wind range, like a bow or hybrid design. Try before you buy.

[Tighe]

Really depends upon the conditions. Like Dave, I find the smaller efficient tube kites to work really well in fast surface conditions specially on skis. A little flying of the kite, gets you moving then apparent wind takes over and soon you're rippin fully powered in sub 10mph on a 12m! If the snow is a bit deeper or slower, then you need the grunt of a big kite. The Machines are pretty unique in that they have half struts and half battens, allowing the trailing edge to flex convex to keep the flow attached to the wing, even when flown deep in the window, ie it avoids the turbulence and eventual stall of a traditional wing deep when flown at that angle to the wind. The 5th line also allows you to flatten out the C and increase the effective surface of kite. Pretty cool thinking when into those kites. And they are massive, heavier, take awhile to pump up manually, and can be a little trickier to relaunch. Some of the newer kites like the Ozone Zepher and Slingshot Turbine achieve much of the same results, have smaller struts (less pumping) give a bit more range and relaunch easier.
I personally like the 14m Rally to be my favorite light wind kite. It still flys fast and is quick turning, yet has loads of grunt. I'd rather have to work it around a bit to generate power in the really light stuff, than ride a bigger kite that might allow just locking it in and cruising (which the bigger kites listed above would afford). Personal preference.

Hope that helps

[johnz]

Don't forget to factor in your size

I'm about 215 lbs and need a little extra something once in a while, so I will break out the big guns once in a while. Tighe does have a good point about 'flying' a slightly smaller and more nimble kite to generate apparent wind. Obviously, the surface conditions impact your chances of success in low wind as well.

No kite works in zero wind, no matter what anybody says.

I'm flown the 17.5 Machine, 20.5 Machine - I even had a 25 Wipika Wip once.

I haven't flown the Zephyr, but have flown the Turbine and liked it a lot.

It's funny how at the winter crossing, when the winds are really light, all of the hotshots are breaking out the older massive c-kites, however One advantage of them is that they are really cheap.

Borrow and try, borrow and try before you buy

- z

[jrjohnson1]

I have a 2009 16M Cabrinha Crossbow and agree with Dave Z, they work great in 5-10 mph winds with their massive low end power. Once the wind gets above 10 mph, you can really start getting some high jumps, but above 13 mph the kite can start to be a handful (I weigh 170 lbs). The depower works really well with the Cabrinha's IDS (Intelligent Depower System) which was introduced in 2009. But to get 100% depower the bar reach can be a stretch and often I find myself riding bent over and arms fully extended when the winds pick up. If you're over 5'10", the bar reach shouldn't be a problem though.
I've flown the 16M Crossbow back to back with a 2010 Ozone Zephyr and found the Crossbow had better low end but the Zephyr was a little faster in the air, has less bar pressure, and is probably easier to fly in higher winds. But if you're looking for a kite in the 5-10 mph range, which is a majority of our winter days, the Crossbow is a good choice.

[Matt V]

No kite works in zero wind, no matter what anybody says.

- johnz

I am 220lbs only have ultra light wind experience with my 12.5 HQ Montana's (5&6's) and my 15m HQ Matrixx.

The Matrixx will fly in "no" wind like 1-2mph on a wind meter or just plain undetectable with out some smoke source. It seems to only let helium in the intakes - at least it feels that way . It just will not pull you anywhere in no wind and you will be 100% focused on keeping tension on the lines while coming out of the loop. But there is no fear of "loosing" the kite on a crash. If you do lose the kite on the edge, it just floats back into the window and hooks back up with out ever loosing more than a few degrees of altitude in the wind-window. I am sure this is similar to the Flysurfers "Speed 3's". As the wind picks up to a detectable level, my Matrixx will pull me in any condition on a snowboard. It is still not much fun up sub-8mph except on rough ice. Decent flatland jumps over 3' are still limited to about 9-11mph of wind at the kite. My biggest inflatable is 13.5m and there is just no way I would trust it to launch in sub 8mph winds.

Bottom line on the Matrixx - When I am flying it and struggling to get 1-2ft jumps on the flat, NO ONE would even pump up an inflatable of any size.

The bad thing about the Matrixx is that in undetectable winds, the thing will just not reverse launch with out you running away from it. Leading edge up takes only a few brisk front line tugs to launch once inflated, but leading edge down is a pain. You have to un-strap from the board in less than 4mph so you can flip the kite or move away from it. In this situation, the wind is so light that I usually do not have to anchor the kite down when you walk to it. But then again, you would have never even gone out with an inflatable in those conditions.

I am starting to not go out in those ultra light winds anymore unless I am somewhere without a local ski hill. It was fun this year to see how light the kite will go, but I can have just as much fun on the ski hill as I can trying to polish a "wind turd" of less than 5mph. And even with the 15m Matrixx I still need 8mph to pull me up wind lips and terraces. Also, going uphill and upwind at the same time are really important when I am 100% focused on the gliding opportunities that terrain can give you. That means that I would prefer 9mph for a guaranteed upwind/uphill tack.

[Barry P]

I'm 170#.

Now that I list them out, I guess I've owned a lot of big "light wind" kites over the years chasing that 'wind fix'. Chronologically: a big Flysurfer (I think it was an 18M Titan), 15M Fuel, 16M Crossbow, 16M Answer, 18M Mayhem (now listed in Classifieds), my current machine is a 16M Spitfire.

Keep in mind that any 'big' kite will be more of a "mowing the lawn" tool compared to flying a smaller kite on a better day... but would you rather just sit and watch, go home, or get out there and "mow the lawn" with the rest of us?

Like much of what has already been said, there is more than one factor to consider. Some kites do better than others at accomplishing these various factors.

Factor 1: "How low can you go?"
It seems like the most important thing is simply "will it fly and still pull me in really low winds"? Will it haul you around so you can get your wind fix when your smaller (and 'funner') kites just cannot do the job. I think summer and winter are very different. In the winter you can make apparent wind much easier for three reasons 1) your board speed does not matter since you cannot sink, 2) the surface often has less friction (ice, wind packed snow) than in the summer, and 3) because of the higher air density in lower temperatures (at the same air pressure) - this means that every little bit you can squeeze out as kite air speed gives you more lift than in warmer Summer winds. OK, one more... #4 lower humidity also translates to denser air, less drag, and more lift.

With fast winter conditions (low friction), I have found that I can make a 9M work well in only 3-4 mph and I think it works better than using my 16 (in low friction conditions). In fluffy or sticky snow, my lower end is more like 6-7 mph and I really have to use my 16M. In Summer I think my low end is something more like 7 (6-10 is OK as long as the 4-6 spots are not too big) on my 16M with a Spleene Door.

Of the kites I've owned, I think the the Titan and the Crossbow did the best job of winning the "will it fly and still pull me in really low winds" competition. I also loved the 'Reverse Launch' capability of these two kites.

Factor 2: "Will it work in Minnesota conditions?"
I moved away from the winners of Factor 1 because I live where winds are not 'smooth' very often. If I lived in South Padre I probably would not even care about this. In Minnesota we often have days of 50% variance in wind speed in any 10 minute block of time (10mph, gusting to 15mph). We also have worse days when you get variances of 100% or more. The amount of lift any flight surface produces changes as a square of air speed (ignoring drag), so if your kite produces X amount of lift at 10mph it will produce 2.25*X at 15 mph, and at 20mph you've got 4 times as much lift (power) as you had at 10 mph. I think light wind conditions are more likely to trend toward 100% variance days than days of stronger winds... a 5-10 day is more normal than a 20-40 day.

So... as time has gone on, the kites' ability to remain "well behaved" in large wind variance conditions has become more important than #1. Too often with the Crossbow, I'd go out on a 7-15 day (pretty common here and not easy on a 14m or less) and the wrestling match was fun for a while (maybe) and I was certainly kiting and getting my wind fix, but damn: what a beast! Soon I started searching for a more forgiving kite and switched to the 16M Answer - better at #2 but I lost a lot in #1, so I wasn't always convinced I made a good trade.

Kevin O's 17M Ozone seems to be very good at #2 he's been on it (and happy) in 10mph and in gusting winds to 25mph. I've been on my 18M Mayhem and 16m Spitfire with him... those days that start out 7-12 and keep bumping up and then down, then up, and then up some more, then down, then up... you know. And your thinking will it stay up so I can shift to a smaller 'funner' kite, or is this just sucker wind and I will have made a bad choice to waste the time on a kite switch. This is Minnesota. This happens all the time. So for me, this kind of flexibility (especially in my biggest kite) is the most important factor of all.

Factor 3: Responsiveness.
Ah... the Holy Grail. Can this be found in a big kite? This is the fun factor. Does it just drone on in it's lumbering, powerful, big kite way, or can it hear you saying TURN! TURN! TURN! When you move the bar, how quickly will the kite obey? When you sheet out, does it pop up to a higher speed or is it sluggish to get going? Does it require a way wide turning radius? Will it jump well?

I've seen Kevin O (and others) doing very well on their 17M Zephyr. I got to fly it. Compared to my last two big kites: 18M Mayhem: #1, #2 - about the same, #3: the Z turns slower but has better lift on jumps. 16M Spitfire: #1 -same, #2 - the Z is a little better, #3 - I'm very happy with mine.
I've watched Tighe having fun on his Turbine. I haven't tried it yet.
I am very jazzed about my current kite (16M Spitfire) in how it deals with #1, #2, and its big step up in covering #3. Perfect? No, I envy the light weight 3 strut config of the Turbine which would probably help #1. My Spitfire is designed to be a light wind wave kite, so I still should be happy that it's just stronger for when it get's dropped in waves (a very bad thing to do) at Superior or SPI.

Tighe... I agree with you, I'd rather be on a smaller kite and make apparent wind (if I can make it work) than a bigger and less agile kite. If I can find a little bit larger surfboard that feels good under me (5'10" or 6'0" with a fast bottom and good rails - it has to corner and accelerate well - at least as good as my current 5'5") I think that I may like that coupled with the smallest kite I can fly this summer as my 'most fun' light wind combo.

Still dreaming about the possibilities.

Sorry this got so long.

[JRN]

Btw: Got a Taboo 17 last season. I was boosting when others were doing the sine wave. The float on these big'uns is someting else. I have yet to test its upper & lower limits. Hope I can fill you in on those stats next season. Stay tuned for more posts down the line...

[Bryce]

Best light wind kite: 16m 2006 cabrinha crossbow 1. Mine isn't looking too good anymore and looses air...but will get me out with some power when no one else can. Slow kite.

Another good one is the 14m HQ Montana 7 I got this year. Not quite as good as the 16m. But it is hard to beat for setup time and no pumping. Great floaty jumps.

I used to have a 20.5m slingshot machine. I didn't care for it. If your used to it and have flown it a bunch it will probably work great. I never quite got the feel for it and later sold it. Other guys do great on it... but they are the ones that have been flying it for years.

Flown both the zepher and turbine. Haven't had too much time on them.. but seem like good lightwind kites as well.

[kiteboymn]

The light wind champ will be crowned this weekend.