Support your local stores

[steveb]

We are quite lucky here because we have 3 stores that carry windsurf and kite equipment for our pleasure. Like me you may not realize how fortunate we are to have this resource on our doorstep, but talk to your windrider buddies in other cities and you'll hear most of them don't have stores with wind gear in their neighbourhood.
You may have heard there's a little bit of an economic slow down going on, some rumour I heard someone talking about.Well it's starting to effect your local stores as well.
So....I wanted to ask that every one makes an effort to buy anything they need from Midwest , Scuba Center and The House before you go to the web. Don't just go to their websites to see what's posted. Call Peter at Midwest , Larry at Scuba center and Sean at the House and ask them if they have what you need. These guys have supported our fun for years, Scuba Center and the House for over 20 years. They're all great guys, they'll never screw you ( unless you ask nicely) and they'll do whatever they can to source what you need.
All the companies have demos, they have knowledge, good advise, and great customer service, I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain that any of our local stores didn't help them when they needed support with a problem.
So ...long winded...but before you jump on the web to find a deal please give these guys a chance to compete for your business,please do your best to stand by these guys for all the sponsored riders and demo product they've supported, the money they've put up for events, the stuff they've donated for door prizes etc. Over the years they're support of our fun amounts to thousands of dollars, it's time to show our appreciation and help support them a little.
I'm just asking you think local before the web...thanks.

[Bill S.]

I recently bought a new Slingshot kite and board from Midewest Moutaineering. While the store was able to match competitive pricing for the gear, they also added 7.4 % sales tax. This amounted to an additional $90 that an online vendor, who does not charge for tax or shipping, would not have gouged me. Beyond this, there was no one in the store that day, a Saturday, who had a clue about kiting. Not a big deal as I know what I'm looking, but I would have appreciated some conversation with a knowledgeable salesperson at the point of purchase. Tighe Belden, a Midwest rep, told me this was an anomaly as the Midwest staff includes many experienced kiters. Oh, well. While in principle I believe that buying local can be an important part of sustaining local economies and communities, I also believe that local retailers have to provide the kinds of value their virtual counterparts cannot, especially if their prices are higher. As this was my first experience with Midwest Mountaineering as a kite dealer, I cannot at this point say whether the $90 premium I paid them for their service was worth it.

As a long-time ski racer and coach, I have routinely paid similar premiums at Pierce Skate and Ski, where over many years Bart Pierce and his staff have become good friends and whose knowledge of the sport and its equipment is first-rate. Many others feel this way about Pierce, and I hope that Midwest and other local kite dealers can follow suit. Still, it's a free market: if local service is sketchy and prices are high, those businesses should fail . . . without bailouts.

Bill

[jbs]

In contrast to Bill's experience, I also recently bought a slingshot T3 and board from Midwest Mountaineering and found Peter to be very helpful, knowledgeable, and friendly. He took the time to show me the inventory and orient me to the workings of the slingshot T3 bar. The boards had just arrived that day and were not assembled yet, and he offered to assemble it for me. I didn't shop around much for prices, but figured $1100 (with tax) for a brand new 9m T3 complete with the new slingy bar and with a complete board was a pretty good deal.

I agree with Steve, that we should make an effort to patronize the local businesses. They are the ones who help make our community what it is, show up to our events, and provide tech support/repairs/etc on hand when needed. Sorry Bill you're not a fan of the sales tax, but that's just the price we pay to live in this fine state Don't get me wrong, I'm as cheap as the next gear hound out there, and order my share online, but I think it's important to also use the local businesses.

[Tighe]

Thanks for the counter perspective Bill.

The reason we are able to have retailers here locally is because these retailers also have other businesses. The kite-only stores that have opened up in Minnesota have not lasted long. There just isn't enough kite sales in Minnesota to support even a single kite only store let alone a few kite only stores. So yes kiting and or windsurfing is one of a few or more retail departments within each of these stores. Since it is usually one of the less lucrative departments, having dedicated staff or a Pro rider on staff for these sports doesn't make sense. Midwest Mountaineering has nearly 50 employees and maybe a dozen who kite.( Peter has more experience with the entire Slingshot lineup than I do.) Your chances of stopping down when one of these employees isn't working is actually pretty high, though I know all the stores do their best to keep someone knowledgeable available as much as possible.

The strategy that most of these retailers take, and one that I think is very effective for all, is to rely on their team riders to help inform interested customers about the gear. The riders are riding the equipment day in day out, usually side by side with other equipment. They will allow you to take demos on the gear to see if it makes sense for you (try before you buy). They are also at the lake when you have a problem or are trying to tweak your gear. All this is so much more valuable than trusting some guy online who flys in completely different conditions, who is sitting on inventory they have to move.

I am a team rider not a rep. I cannot tell you the amount of time I spend (and enjoy) helping riders get the most out of their gear, fix their gear, or help them sort through the equipment options. And I am not doing anything that any of the other team riders wouldn't. I know they are all committed to helping others understand the product they represent. Check out the Advisors section of this site: http://www.windancing.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7191. All of this service for a fraction more, if that. I don't know, I think that's definitely worth it.

In your particular case, you and I spent considerable emails over the last few years as you entered the sport and were deciding upon your purchases. I know for a fact that you spent considerable time talking to Peter at Midwest prior to your purchase. Yeah you may have paid a bit more for your equipment, but just think how much more you would have had to pay if you had bought the wrong kind of equipment and had to either struggle with it or sell it at a loss.

There are the people that go into the knowledgeable stores, talk the ear off the experienced salesperson and then go online to buy it. If that's how you ride that's how you ride. I don't think you're that person Bill. Personally, I'd prefer to support that person who helped guide me into my new toy, even if it means paying a fraction more.

If any of you want to ensure the best service from any of these stores, call ahead and ask when is a good time to come down and talk to someone about the gear you're interested in. I'm sure Peter or Larry or Sean would love to meet with you and go over the options. Take advantage of all of the local team riders. We're here to assist however we can.

[steveb]

I have to come to Midwests defense here a little. Peter's their main kite guy ( though he's not their only one)and he had the audacity to take a vacation and go climbing in Alaska. I'll talk to him when he gets back and make sure he doesn't do it again
Have something go wrong with a kite bought somewhere else in the country and you'll quickly forget the price of the tax for a local purchase, tough to walk into a store in Florida and ask for service.
No relationships are perfect, stores like us are basically people, they get sick, take vacations ,make mistakes, there may be exceptions but they're basically human.
I just thought we should think a little before we spend our dollars.
I needed a kite knife for Nancy, I was in the neighbourhood of Larrys store and he had the knife in stock. I bought it for her. Unfortunately a knife sale will not pay the rent for the store for a month but at least I felt better because my money went into the pockets of a man I've known and liked for a long time. And I'm sure Larry was over the moon about the $1.50 profit he made

[tumblemonster]

I have to throw in here too. I bought several kites from Midwest in November, and Peter was very helpful and also gave me a great deal on the gear. Further, after the bladder on one of my new kites popped on the beach on it's second day out, I sent Peter an e-mail, and a couple days later he'd arranged for a new bladder to be sent out and covered under the warranty.

That kind of personal service is worth sales tax, hell, it's worth a lot more. I won't hesitate to buy from Midwest again.

[cautionkid]

I am split on this topic, On one hand I work hard for my money which I don't have a lot of so hell yeah I am going to find the best deal I can which of course is probably going to be on the web. I do understand that we do need to support our local stores but a couple hundred dollars is more than one days pay for most of us. If a store can not survive on selling kite gear alone than the need to get other ways to support themselves like scuba equip, or hobby kites, wind vanes and such which the general public will pay for. When it comes down to it, I will half to listen to the voice in my head that tells me to go with the cheapest price, I would rather kite, than work to pay for my kiting equip.

[Elkman]

Technically, when you buy something off the Internet and they don't collect Minnesota sales tax on it, you're supposed to pay a "use tax", which is equivalent to the sales tax that you would have paid if you had bought it in Minnesota. I don't know how often people actually pay this, since it seems to be a self-reporting thing, but I know the state has talked a lot about trying to capture the use taxes that are actually owed on Internet sales.

As far as supporting local retailers goes: If you don't support your local retailers, they won't be around when you actually need the services of a local shop. Someone mentioned scuba diving gear. Well, as it turns out, one of the local dive shops, Scuba Dive and Travel in south Minneapolis, had to close its doors because of slow sales. The same happened with Scuba Daddy's in Burnsville, although that situation is even more complicated. (Stop me if I'm talking about scuba diving too much.) I figure that with the expertise that a local shop provides, it's better to shop with people who know what they're doing than simply browsing and clicking on some web site.

Of course, I'm not a 100% retail person -- I've been known to order things via the Web, like a really accurate wind meter that I couldn't find at one of the local shops. For the kind of items that represent a significant investment and that I need a salesperson's advice for, I think it's worth it to go through a local shop.

[RobH]

Our local kite stores face the challange of stocking kites knowing the kite companies will be closing out stock and reducing prices leaving the local stores at risk of holding inventory they cant make money on or getting stuck with invetory then cant sell. Combine this with trying to stay competitive in the internet sales knowing the tax for local buyers is a extra kick. The local stores help support the community, so I think we at least need to give them the oppertunity and check with them on price before ordering online. I know Larry at Scuba Center doesnt carry much inventory but can shoot you a price on many different Kite manufacturers and set you up with a great kite. Midwest has done well some great deals on Slingshot equipment and the House has also served us well for many years. It would be a shame to loose any of these retailers.

To ecco Tighe, if anyone has any questions about the Cabrinha line look me up. The new IDS kites are very smooth and the Cabrinha Caliber board has become my favorite all around board for the chop - take it for a spin.

[Reds]

If you are going to live on the island, be part of it.

[dtownkiter]

while we are on the subject of local stores...anyone know who sells a decent knife to cut lines? i am looking for something with a holster that i can mount on a helmet. Tighe--where did you get yours at?

thanks!

adam t.

[Tighe]

ah er um....online.

It is a scuba knife and I'm sure Larry could set you up.

tighe

[chanrider]

Peter Noren at Midwest hooked me up with this bad ass Bearclaw knife made by Columbia River Knife & Tool. It comes with nice a hard plastic sheath that it won't fall out of until you pull it. Mine is the 2510 model with the rounded tip and has a safety orange handle. I have it strapped up high on the front shoulder of my impact vest. I think you could mount it to a helmet also although the handle might be a little big and heavy for putting on your head. On the vest I don't even notice it at all, but it's comforting to know it's there and I think it's an easier more natural reach in an emergency situation. This puppy can cut through almost anything pretty fast.

http://www.crkt.com/bearclaw.html

[steveb]

The one I got from Larry for Nancy has a nice sheaf that can be mounted on just about anything,we put it on her lifejacket, he had more in stock.
I'm sure Midwest has knives suitable for the job too.

Caution kid....fair comments but you should know, especially if you supported your local stores, that they all have other products they sell, not a chance they could make a living selling windsurfing and kite equipment.

Have a look http://www.scubacenter.com http://www.The-House.com http://www.midwestmtn.com as you will see our local suppliers are pretty diverse in the products they sell.

[johnz]

I have to throw in for the local shops as well.

It's a cost vs. value proposition, but what often gets overlooked is that you don't have to pay extra to stay local.

Peter (and Larry) are both great at finding good deals on closeouts, overstocks, even 'a' quality used gear.

And there is nothing like touching and feeling the gear before you buy it.

Finally, the value of local service if something goes wrong is critical. Missing rides on a nice, windy day where you finally got the day off of work and your wife has the kids is invaluable . Supporting the local guys means that you'll have a bro to bum some gear off of in just such an 'emergency'.

I also agree with Tighe. Kite-only stores can't survive. Thank goodness for scuba, kayaks, $800 parkas, and the like!!!

If you are thinking about buying something, call these guys and give them a chance to work their magic. If they know you are not wasting their time, they'll come through for you.

[Bill S.]

Great thread and a timely topic. My "counter perspective" was naturally a devil's advocacy as I have always bought and will continue to buy local. As Steve suggests, the point is that in the age of the internet the price of sustaining local economies is going up, and that the premiums we pay local retailers are as much about sustaining communities as individual businesses. I agree: if you live on the island, pitch in . . . if you can afford it. I am lucky to be able to routinely pay an extra hundred bucks or so (beyond web prices) for local purchases of kites, bikes, skis, kayaks, roller blades and so on. I fully appreciate that for many such premiums are too costly and that value is solely a calculation of the bottom line.

To be fair, Peter at Midwest, though I haven't met him, has been helpful on the phone. Tighe, of course, over many years has generously provided solid advice on gear and how to use it.

Bill