T3 14 Question

[Dean Rizer]

My last two sessions were in light air 8-18 on snow. More on starboard I noticed the kite wanted to nose down onto the snow almost like the leading edge was weighted. The kite did not want to park, it required constant adjusting with my left arm. I traded with Mike Kellett and his 15 Rev, the Rev parked nicely, Mike experienced the same conditions with my T3. Overhead the T3 lines were even, a little slack on the back lines when totally sheeted out. I've flown a 16 Crossbow and 14 Contra on snow and I haven't experienced this before. I didn't notice this on the water last fall. The only thing I could think of was that I was flying the kite too low otherwise I'm stumped. Any ideas?

Thanks!

[RandyL]

Do you have the winter leader lines?

[palmby]

well, nobody is replying, so i decided to throw in my two (or three...) cents. understand, ive only gotten my t3s (9m, 14m) up a couple times but ive noticed the same things you report and i think ive figured them out... at least, theyve been solved by things ive done... i dont claim to be an expert but this is whats happened, what ive done, and its worked to some extent.

consistently diving on only one tack - where the safety comes through, the knots holding it to on leading edge line get stuck in the ball and prevent the leading edge line from achieving its full length, providing a pull to whichever side that particular line is rigged to. checking the ball that the safety runs through will probably show your safety being held up 1-4" short, depending on where its getting hung up. this would explain the poor manners and constant diving you describe. i saw it on my 9m, and this was the problem.

sagging rear lines - i am assuming you have the standard trailing edge leader lines rigged in 2:1 fassion, not the winter lines (read: less stiff) ((or a 1:1 rig)) that have been talked about on the boards here. this seems to make the bar pressure a lot heavier, a lot more of the tension you impart by pulling on the bar tensions the leading edge due to the stiffness, giving a sag to the trailing edge... it should get progressively better as the lines settle into place, if you hold the bar in one spot or rest it on the active stopper, the leading lines will settle in on the bar pulleys and twnsion. i noticed that when i let go of the bar (holding it im always moving, so the lines are always in a dynamic state, so the stiffness is always in play) the lines sag more, but when i rest the bar on the stopper, the rear lines have more tension in them. switching to the winter lines would probably help this - you can also cheat by putting pig tails on the leader lines, but this makes the kite slightly harder to depower, and a lot easier to back-stall... the handling is still a little dead and its not as well behaved, but it puts the bar in a decent position and keeps your rear lines tensioned a little better.

air pressure - ss recommends 8lbs for colder climates, ive run from 5-9 in the winter, with the higher psi mantaining the shape better, and giving a less on-off feel, which helps with fine control. this is a big bonus if youre running the stiff leader lines... i think its because the higher the pressure, the more shape the kite inhernetly has, the less 'flat' it is. it also keeps it from luffing when sheeted out and depowered giving better low-power control at jibes/etc.

take it for what its worth, this is whats been working for me, if anyone has any corrections or further insights on what ive seen/said please enlighten me!

[palmby]

ok - one other person is replying... winter leader lines = key...

[Tighe]

I haven't seen any of these problems and I've gone through quite a few T3s this year. All of the points seem plausible and easy to check and remedy. It does surprise me that the line would get caught and not go through that ball. There is a lot of pressure on those front lines.

My best guess is that when you rolled your bar up last time, the leader lines on one side were bent in such a way that now they want return to that shape, and are pulling on that side of the kite. Even if they look straight they may be pulling on the line just a bit. This gets worse when you take your bar out of your vehicle and lay it in the snow while you pump up. Also, most noticable in the really light winds.

Anyway winter lines would solve this problem. I think they have a few down at Midwest still. They are quite cheap, take all of 3 minutes to put on, and give you the best of both worlds...or seasons.

Let us know what you figure out.

[Dean Rizer]

Thanks everyone. I read the earlier posts about winter leader lines. I never realized frozen lines might effect the kite's performance. I think the winter lines are the solution to this problem. My kites are stored cold. The lines are wrapped tight and the leader lines are like frozen snakes when unwrapped. I lay the bar in the snow when I set up and as I rember the colder the air temps, the more noticable the problem. Thanks again!

[Reds]

I experienced some of those same problems, changed the leader lines, and had much better flying.

[Dean Rizer]

I spoke to one of the Tech riders at Slingshot. His opinion was that the front 800 lb. lines had definitely stretched and were causing the nose diving. He said they are really 1200 lb lines and they may not have been properly pre stretched at the factory because of their size. There is a link on their web site on how to properly stretch or pre stretch the lines. He thought I should re stretch the lines, make sure they are equal length and go from there. He didn't feel the winter leader lines would solve the diving problem, that might be plan C. Plan B would be to check to make sure the bridles are of equal length as apparently they have been known to stretch as well. He said If I found them to be stretched he would replace them...free. I cant say enought about Slingshot. They are definitely there after the sale. I have an 11m T3, that blew out a panel on it's 3rd flight. After establishing thru Scuba Center that the kite wasn't abused, they fixed it NC. I hope this helps someone.

[Travii]

I helped convert Heath's kite from the plastic coated leader lines to the winter leader lines and he felt a huge improvement in steering and control. I don't think you should underestimate this change. His T2 was doing weird stuff until we made the change, especially when it is cold out. Keep in mind that those SS guys ride in the warm and balmy gorge.

Travis