A friend of mine went fishing on White Bear yesterday late afternoon and said he had two encounters with kiters on the water that were too close for comfort. Both encounters happened within 50 yards of the Ramsey boat launch while he was idling out to the main lake. He said both kiters got close, but one got within 10 feet of his boat. I know this guy well and he is very patient and gets it that we all have to share the lake but he thought it was odd that the kiters would stay so close to the boat launch. No nasty words or hand gestures were exchanged but we all know there are people out there that may have reacted differently (water rage?)
I don’t bring this up to stir up the whole debate about when and where to ride during the busy summer months, just to be careful and keep a safe distance from boaters and other objects in the water or on land.
Kiting around others on the lake
Moderator: MK
Re: Kiting around others on the lake
I AGREE. On the same token, I could well have been guilty, or not, trying to stay upwind or to avoid stranding in a weed bed. I'd like to add the suggestion that Ramsey may not be an appropriate venue for giving your "newbie" buddy lessons. Might I suggest that, if it is congested at Ramsey, that Rutherford, just a quick hop to the east, is shallow by shore, and usually less busy. I would caution anyone to beware of the weedbeds which are thicker than ever with the recent rain and warm temps. I do recall seeing a boat, maybe your friend, idling by shore, but always make a practice to slow and wave, with a FRIENDLY hand gesture, signaling to any boaters crossing my path, that they should pass. If you REALLY want to get technical, power boats are supposed to give way to sail craft, since they are more manuverable, and less subject to the whims of the wind. I doubt that but a small percent of power boaters are aware of this , however. Next time you plan to challenge an oil tanker with your sunfish, remember that you are in the right. Anyway, I hope we can all keep safety in mind any place we're kiting.
WARNING:
I AM AN UNREFORMED SERIAL FLIRT!!
(please respond accordingly ;^{})
I AM AN UNREFORMED SERIAL FLIRT!!
(please respond accordingly ;^{})
Re: Kiting around others on the lake
I couldn’t agree more with the fact that a majority of Minnesota boaters don’t have a clue as to what the rules of the road are. Anything from what the right of way rules are to what the different buoys are telling them. I was wondering if the right of way discussion would come up when I originally posted so I would add that the Minnesota boating guide states; “Non-motorized craft (sailboats, canoes, etc.) have the right-of-way over motorized craft in all situations, except when the non-motorized craft is overtaking or passing”. I know there would be an argument that since my friend had his boat in gear, the kiter would have the right away but in the tight confines of the boat launch area I think the argument could easily go the other way. A kiter at ~15mph approaching a boat going ~2mph might not have the right of way. I’m definitely not arguing the point here, just making sure the kiters are aware that they don’t always have the right of way.
And speaking of the rules, believe it or not, beginning in 2014 the DNR will be requiring anyone who trailers a boat to take an online course on invasive species. You need to pass this course in order to get the “permit” that allows you to trailer your boat. Wouldn’t it be a good idea to incorporate a boat operators test into that? But that’s a whole different subject that gets me up on my soapbox.
And speaking of the rules, believe it or not, beginning in 2014 the DNR will be requiring anyone who trailers a boat to take an online course on invasive species. You need to pass this course in order to get the “permit” that allows you to trailer your boat. Wouldn’t it be a good idea to incorporate a boat operators test into that? But that’s a whole different subject that gets me up on my soapbox.
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Kevinousdigian
- Posts: 646
- Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 10:37 pm
Re: Kiting around others on the lake
I kite at Ramsey over 20 times a year and sure hope we never lose that great launch. I think we could avoid problems by having the kiters walk the very short distance to hit the water on the upwind spot next to the dock which is furthest away from the beach and the boat ramp. Then us kiters should stay out of the main channel where the boaters are coming in and going out. Just kite to the east or west of that channel. When I saw boats going or coming I didn't yell at them that I had right away, I just jibed and got out of there way. In fairness to some boaters they don't understand how we are trying to kite and if they are idling to get onto the trailer they shouldn't have to worry about powerful kite falling out of the sky. Also a mom with little kids at the beach should not have to worry about a kiter and a guy fishing in his boat doesn't want to get buzzed by us either.
Hit the water next to the dock and stay out of the channel on nice beach/boating days so we can keep access.
KO
Hit the water next to the dock and stay out of the channel on nice beach/boating days so we can keep access.
KO
Kevin Ousdigian
Re: Kiting around others on the lake
Like Normann, I too was riding at Ramsey Tuesday afternoon. I was struggling to get, and stay, upwind. There was a fair amount traffic from the landing and I did try and stay clear of the boats and/or make my intentions clear. I did get fairly close to one fishing boat; I went behind his boat while we kept eye contact with each other and exchanged friendly nods. There was another guy who was watching another kiter on the opposite tack from me that was approaching the boater's port side. I was approaching from the boater's starboard side and he was completely oblivious to me until I whistled. He just about jumped out of his skin. Maybe I should have just transitioned and gone the other way without alerting him to my presence. I really wanted to be riding upwind of the islands but I just couldn't get there. I think, in general, it worked out well between kiters and boats. I agree with Kevin that I would hate to lose this launch, probably the best in the metro for a SE wind.
Normann - BTW there are about 6 categories of boats in the right or way rules for watercraft. Pleasure craft are in the lowest category. That supertanker would be fully within it's right of way to crush your Sunfish.
Normann - BTW there are about 6 categories of boats in the right or way rules for watercraft. Pleasure craft are in the lowest category. That supertanker would be fully within it's right of way to crush your Sunfish.
Re: Kiting around others on the lake
Thanks, Bill. Cancel the trans-Atlantic crossing. The Sunfish is going back to drydock. 
WARNING:
I AM AN UNREFORMED SERIAL FLIRT!!
(please respond accordingly ;^{})
I AM AN UNREFORMED SERIAL FLIRT!!
(please respond accordingly ;^{})
Re: Kiting around others on the lake
So that explains why you were hanging out behind that dock so much on Tuesday?
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JWatkins15
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 7:29 am
Re: Kiting around others on the lake
Hi LAKAWA readers,
I think this is a great thread regarding right of way, and it seems most know the rules and fully try to follow them, should conditions permit. I would like to add comment on the very contentious issue of teaching at our crowded beaches. As a South Florida transplant, I have been very cautious not to overstep my bounds, and for the most part have observed without comment over the last year or so. While I know little good will come from my commentary, I feel that the tone at the start of this thread strongly exemplifies the prevailing attitude toward beginning kiters in our state, and warrants comment. I intend no disrespect and only hope to give the perspective of someone who, unlike most lakawa members is an outsider, but like most lakawa members, is an evangelic supporter for the sport. With this post I hope to 1. shed some light on the prevailing teaching and safety philosophy outside the state, to 2. make some basic observations about the conditions in MN, and the associated challenges of teaching in our state, and 3. inspire some introspective thought on how we as a community chose to welcome others.
1. I have been doing some teaching on the side for Mike, The Boss Man, since moving up to MN. Not because I intend to make a career as a kite instructor, but because I like Mike, and and I love being on the water. On a marginally windy day, I have more fun teaching than I would riding. I started teaching before coming to MN, so was surprised by the difference in the skills emphasized by the local instructional pedagogy. In most kiting regions after learning about rigging and how to properly self rescue, students spend about an hour on the trainer kite, and then move on to a substantial amount of time flying a 6-8m 4-line kite ON THE BEACH or in knee deep water with an emphasis on creating power with the power stroke, managing kite position at the edge of the window, and flying the kite while walking. After all, the walk of shame is coming. At that point a student spends about an hour learning how to body drag back upwind with a tack out to sea, and then straight back to shore so that he or she does not have to use the often dramatically dangerous zip leash board attachment. The point is, these beginning skills all have a couple things in common: access to beach space, side-shore to on-shore winds, and the careful observation of an instructor.
2. Here lies the problem, beach space is at a premium in MN. Not surprisingly the best beaches for "veteran" riders is also the best place to teach/ learn. On S or SE wind, WBL has a great sandy beach area for ground skills, and a shallow area that is perfect for students to walk back up wind after a shot at body dragging or board starts. Waconia on SW to NW, same story, but without the sandy area for ground skills, but not to worry, those can be done in waist deep water. Finally the cannon east shore is great for N to NE. Now obviously Mille Lacs is best of all, but frankly, it is not a metro kiting location. Yes, these areas are crowded, yes it is annoying to have to change your tack because there is a student flailing around near shore, but the point is, once you've entered the water, if you are indeed a proficient kiter as defined by the IKO or PASA, you should be able to get up wind, and maneuver at will around those student hazards. If you cannot, frankly, you too should be kiting under the supervision of an instructor
3. This brings me to my main concern. Fortunately no such instances have ever occurred with a paying customer, but twice with people I have tried to bring into the kiting community here have MN kiters been downright unpleasant (albeit MN passive aggressively) to guests. First with my wife who is IKO level 3 certified. A kiter told her that Wildwood was an "expert only launch" and that she should try another location. Despite my attempts to calm her after the interaction, I am pretty sure that the aforementioned kiter should hope to never end up on my wife, the surgeon's, operating table. Most recently my friend, an expert surfer, was also told he should go to a more beginner friendly (read, less desirable) location despite being under the supervision of an instructor (me). Guys and gals, I know its our responsibility to protect the beach, and when people are being unsafe, its our duty to lend a hand, or suggest a safer spot, or more importantly some professional instruction. But when someone is under direct supervision, or in a lesson, it is not our responsibility to discourage them or make them feel any more awkward than they surely do feel. We should be encouraging, offering helpful pointers when appropriate, and most importantly cutting wide tacks to give them plenty of room to eat it, and then haul their kite back up wind on the walk of shame to try again.
In short, I didn't learn to kite in MN. I'm not saying that is good or bad, just different. Our kiting resources in MN, beaches, wind, cabrinha kites (ok, just joking on the cabrinha kites part) are in limited supply, so naturally those of us that already know how to ride want unencumbered access to all those resources. But frankly it seems too often that rather than inviting the new kid to join in this AWESOME game, we would rather take our ball and play by ourselves. I know that is a stretch of an analogy, but give me a break... I wasn't an english major. Gentlemen (and you smattering of ladies), I have really enjoyed spending some time kiting and teaching in MN, and hope to continue to do so, but be prepared, I will be spreading the stoke, and that means newbies in your tack and more crowded beaches. It sucks, but its the way it has to be if we are going to grow the sport, and keep Mike, Chad, Nathan and the other great MN kiting instructors fat and happy. Sorry for the short story.
PEACE,
Jim
LAKAWA Cabrinha Team Rider and Limited Edition Instructor
I think this is a great thread regarding right of way, and it seems most know the rules and fully try to follow them, should conditions permit. I would like to add comment on the very contentious issue of teaching at our crowded beaches. As a South Florida transplant, I have been very cautious not to overstep my bounds, and for the most part have observed without comment over the last year or so. While I know little good will come from my commentary, I feel that the tone at the start of this thread strongly exemplifies the prevailing attitude toward beginning kiters in our state, and warrants comment. I intend no disrespect and only hope to give the perspective of someone who, unlike most lakawa members is an outsider, but like most lakawa members, is an evangelic supporter for the sport. With this post I hope to 1. shed some light on the prevailing teaching and safety philosophy outside the state, to 2. make some basic observations about the conditions in MN, and the associated challenges of teaching in our state, and 3. inspire some introspective thought on how we as a community chose to welcome others.
1. I have been doing some teaching on the side for Mike, The Boss Man, since moving up to MN. Not because I intend to make a career as a kite instructor, but because I like Mike, and and I love being on the water. On a marginally windy day, I have more fun teaching than I would riding. I started teaching before coming to MN, so was surprised by the difference in the skills emphasized by the local instructional pedagogy. In most kiting regions after learning about rigging and how to properly self rescue, students spend about an hour on the trainer kite, and then move on to a substantial amount of time flying a 6-8m 4-line kite ON THE BEACH or in knee deep water with an emphasis on creating power with the power stroke, managing kite position at the edge of the window, and flying the kite while walking. After all, the walk of shame is coming. At that point a student spends about an hour learning how to body drag back upwind with a tack out to sea, and then straight back to shore so that he or she does not have to use the often dramatically dangerous zip leash board attachment. The point is, these beginning skills all have a couple things in common: access to beach space, side-shore to on-shore winds, and the careful observation of an instructor.
2. Here lies the problem, beach space is at a premium in MN. Not surprisingly the best beaches for "veteran" riders is also the best place to teach/ learn. On S or SE wind, WBL has a great sandy beach area for ground skills, and a shallow area that is perfect for students to walk back up wind after a shot at body dragging or board starts. Waconia on SW to NW, same story, but without the sandy area for ground skills, but not to worry, those can be done in waist deep water. Finally the cannon east shore is great for N to NE. Now obviously Mille Lacs is best of all, but frankly, it is not a metro kiting location. Yes, these areas are crowded, yes it is annoying to have to change your tack because there is a student flailing around near shore, but the point is, once you've entered the water, if you are indeed a proficient kiter as defined by the IKO or PASA, you should be able to get up wind, and maneuver at will around those student hazards. If you cannot, frankly, you too should be kiting under the supervision of an instructor
3. This brings me to my main concern. Fortunately no such instances have ever occurred with a paying customer, but twice with people I have tried to bring into the kiting community here have MN kiters been downright unpleasant (albeit MN passive aggressively) to guests. First with my wife who is IKO level 3 certified. A kiter told her that Wildwood was an "expert only launch" and that she should try another location. Despite my attempts to calm her after the interaction, I am pretty sure that the aforementioned kiter should hope to never end up on my wife, the surgeon's, operating table. Most recently my friend, an expert surfer, was also told he should go to a more beginner friendly (read, less desirable) location despite being under the supervision of an instructor (me). Guys and gals, I know its our responsibility to protect the beach, and when people are being unsafe, its our duty to lend a hand, or suggest a safer spot, or more importantly some professional instruction. But when someone is under direct supervision, or in a lesson, it is not our responsibility to discourage them or make them feel any more awkward than they surely do feel. We should be encouraging, offering helpful pointers when appropriate, and most importantly cutting wide tacks to give them plenty of room to eat it, and then haul their kite back up wind on the walk of shame to try again.
In short, I didn't learn to kite in MN. I'm not saying that is good or bad, just different. Our kiting resources in MN, beaches, wind, cabrinha kites (ok, just joking on the cabrinha kites part) are in limited supply, so naturally those of us that already know how to ride want unencumbered access to all those resources. But frankly it seems too often that rather than inviting the new kid to join in this AWESOME game, we would rather take our ball and play by ourselves. I know that is a stretch of an analogy, but give me a break... I wasn't an english major. Gentlemen (and you smattering of ladies), I have really enjoyed spending some time kiting and teaching in MN, and hope to continue to do so, but be prepared, I will be spreading the stoke, and that means newbies in your tack and more crowded beaches. It sucks, but its the way it has to be if we are going to grow the sport, and keep Mike, Chad, Nathan and the other great MN kiting instructors fat and happy. Sorry for the short story.
PEACE,
Jim
LAKAWA Cabrinha Team Rider and Limited Edition Instructor
Re: Kiting around others on the lake
Let me get this straight Jim, you want to be able to take beginners, who have never flown a kite to White Bear Lake, Ramsey Beach, which in the summer is full of swimmers, and other beach goers, and have them fly a kite. Then after getting the feel of it for an hour, put them on a larger four line kite and get them into the water, at Ramsey Beach with a very busy boat launch just down wind, so they can take their knocks and learn the sport? If you are allowed to do this the access to this spot will be gone in a matter of weeks, if not days.
This is not the place to take first time kite fliers. There are people who have just as much of a right to the spot as we do trying to enjoy the beach and the water, who are not endangering everyone around them with their powered up kites. The wind is gusty, and unpredictable, and even experienced kite fliers have a hard time keeping the kites in the air. This is not Florida wind we are talking about here.
I think it is admirable of you to want to grow the sport and keep the stoke up, but to suggest that Ramsey Beach is the place to do it, I think is very short sighted. What happens when your beginner kiter, who is super stoked to get to fly a big kite, that they do not know how to fly, all of a sudden sends the kit into a loop and hits an 8 year old kid swimming in the shallows just down wind of your teaching area? Mom see's this and calls the cops to get these dangerous crazy kiters off the beach. This is not a possibility on Ramsey beach, this is a certainty with beginner kiters (hell, it is probably a certainty with experienced kiters). I would rather see you teaching at Wildwood, where at least they will only be endangering themselves, not the innocent bystanders and boaters in the area.
All of the points I have made above about Ramsey also apply to Waconia on a NW wind. On a South wind Waconia is actually pretty good, as the kiter will only get pulled into the cliff, so no harm done (other than to their kite). We must take into account the other people who use the areas, as it is not a designated kiting launch, and we do not even pay the fees that support these areas, the fisherman and boaters do. How do we justify our use of a boat launch area like Waconia to the DNR when we are not even buying fishing licences or boat registrations. We hurt someone, or get in the way a few too many times and we will see our access to these places revoked. I will guarantee it.
What is wrong with doing dry land training with beginners in a soccer field on trainer kites, and then taking them out into the middle of the lake with a jet ski and getting them flying in relative safety. This is what I have seen most of the instructor do in the area, as they know as well as I do that having first time kiters fly kites right near shore in Minnesota is a loosing proposition, for everyone involved (with the exception of Milly obviously).
Restricting beginners on these launches does not have anything to do with experienced kiters getting in the way of beginners, or vise versa. I try to give more than enough room to beginners as I do not want to get hit by an out of control kite. It has to do with the safety of people who have no idea of the dangers they subject themselves to by simply trying to enjoy the lakes on a beautiful summer day. Where do we get the idea that we can simply take over a spot because it happens to be a bit windy and we want to ride? The kiter community have even thought of shutting down Ramsey all together in the summer, as there is just too big of a potential for disaster. We are just too selfish to make that sacrifice however because we love the launch and the grass and the picnic tables too much. Opening it up to complete beginners is not the way I think it should go.
Sorry for the rant, but I just could not remain silent to what Jim had to say. I will enjoy riding with you Jim, and would like to have a discussion on these issues next time I see you at the beach. Maybe we should even convene a bit at the Gathering this weekend and figure out how to make our launches and teaching in this state as safe as we possibly can with the resources we have. Thanks.
This is not the place to take first time kite fliers. There are people who have just as much of a right to the spot as we do trying to enjoy the beach and the water, who are not endangering everyone around them with their powered up kites. The wind is gusty, and unpredictable, and even experienced kite fliers have a hard time keeping the kites in the air. This is not Florida wind we are talking about here.
I think it is admirable of you to want to grow the sport and keep the stoke up, but to suggest that Ramsey Beach is the place to do it, I think is very short sighted. What happens when your beginner kiter, who is super stoked to get to fly a big kite, that they do not know how to fly, all of a sudden sends the kit into a loop and hits an 8 year old kid swimming in the shallows just down wind of your teaching area? Mom see's this and calls the cops to get these dangerous crazy kiters off the beach. This is not a possibility on Ramsey beach, this is a certainty with beginner kiters (hell, it is probably a certainty with experienced kiters). I would rather see you teaching at Wildwood, where at least they will only be endangering themselves, not the innocent bystanders and boaters in the area.
All of the points I have made above about Ramsey also apply to Waconia on a NW wind. On a South wind Waconia is actually pretty good, as the kiter will only get pulled into the cliff, so no harm done (other than to their kite). We must take into account the other people who use the areas, as it is not a designated kiting launch, and we do not even pay the fees that support these areas, the fisherman and boaters do. How do we justify our use of a boat launch area like Waconia to the DNR when we are not even buying fishing licences or boat registrations. We hurt someone, or get in the way a few too many times and we will see our access to these places revoked. I will guarantee it.
What is wrong with doing dry land training with beginners in a soccer field on trainer kites, and then taking them out into the middle of the lake with a jet ski and getting them flying in relative safety. This is what I have seen most of the instructor do in the area, as they know as well as I do that having first time kiters fly kites right near shore in Minnesota is a loosing proposition, for everyone involved (with the exception of Milly obviously).
Restricting beginners on these launches does not have anything to do with experienced kiters getting in the way of beginners, or vise versa. I try to give more than enough room to beginners as I do not want to get hit by an out of control kite. It has to do with the safety of people who have no idea of the dangers they subject themselves to by simply trying to enjoy the lakes on a beautiful summer day. Where do we get the idea that we can simply take over a spot because it happens to be a bit windy and we want to ride? The kiter community have even thought of shutting down Ramsey all together in the summer, as there is just too big of a potential for disaster. We are just too selfish to make that sacrifice however because we love the launch and the grass and the picnic tables too much. Opening it up to complete beginners is not the way I think it should go.
Sorry for the rant, but I just could not remain silent to what Jim had to say. I will enjoy riding with you Jim, and would like to have a discussion on these issues next time I see you at the beach. Maybe we should even convene a bit at the Gathering this weekend and figure out how to make our launches and teaching in this state as safe as we possibly can with the resources we have. Thanks.
Eric
Re: Kiting around others on the lake
Jim...
Yes, Minnesota sucks!!
I too wish we had the freedom of the wide beaches and smooth winds we enjoy at SPI, Florida, CA - actually almost anywhere but here it seems. I wish it were different too - and I'm a native. I wish a lot of things.
Sorry your friends were put off by the locals assuming they were beginners. Nobody wears proficiency badges here. Somehow, in spite of certifications and expert surfer status they must have appeared to be a bit inexperienced or uncertain, or something. I think you are wrong to classify the 'beginner friendly' locations we condemn newbies to as "less desirable". I can agree they are less conveniently located to the city center (Washington is 15 minutes farther out than Waconia), but by no means are they less desirable kiting locations. They are still the places I prefer to kite at. Less crowds (swimmers, boaters), less docks, larger areas of shallows, and usually smoother wind.
This has nothing to do with some kind of desire to hog the city beaches to our 'experienced' little selves. That's a pretty offensive and misguided representation on your part. With a little more honing of their skills they will be VERY welcome at any beach, I promise you.
Chad and Mike teach here on the city lakes. When I see Mike teaching on city lakes, I see him taking his students out on to the lake by boat. Chad uses a jet ski. I haven't seen them making bad choices for their students or for those around them.
Yes, Minnesota sucks!!
I too wish we had the freedom of the wide beaches and smooth winds we enjoy at SPI, Florida, CA - actually almost anywhere but here it seems. I wish it were different too - and I'm a native. I wish a lot of things.
Sorry your friends were put off by the locals assuming they were beginners. Nobody wears proficiency badges here. Somehow, in spite of certifications and expert surfer status they must have appeared to be a bit inexperienced or uncertain, or something. I think you are wrong to classify the 'beginner friendly' locations we condemn newbies to as "less desirable". I can agree they are less conveniently located to the city center (Washington is 15 minutes farther out than Waconia), but by no means are they less desirable kiting locations. They are still the places I prefer to kite at. Less crowds (swimmers, boaters), less docks, larger areas of shallows, and usually smoother wind.
This has nothing to do with some kind of desire to hog the city beaches to our 'experienced' little selves. That's a pretty offensive and misguided representation on your part. With a little more honing of their skills they will be VERY welcome at any beach, I promise you.
Chad and Mike teach here on the city lakes. When I see Mike teaching on city lakes, I see him taking his students out on to the lake by boat. Chad uses a jet ski. I haven't seen them making bad choices for their students or for those around them.
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JWatkins15
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 7:29 am
Re: Kiting around others on the lake
Eric,
Your concerns are valid...safety is of utmost importance. Keep in mind though that Ramsey Beach is closed to swimmers because of water level and that there are 2-4 kite lengths worth of space between the shore and the shallows where kiters can still stand at Waconia. The fact of the matter is that riders that are still tomahawking kites into the ground are doing so because they didn't learn to fly the 4-line with an instructor standing behind, holding their harness, and giving specific instructions: "hold the kite at 1 o'clock, keep the kite moving through the lull, SHEET OUT!" Students that cannot demonstrate certain skills on a trainer should not move on to the 4-line, and when they do move onto the 4-line, it should be under vigilant supervision. This progression is determined by none other than the instructor. In education this is the "we-do" portion of the "i do, we-do, you-do" gradual release of responsibility. Without ground underfoot, I do not know an instructor on the planet that has the skills to give the level of instruction that gets a student comfortable with kite physics safely. I know this is not FL, but I have had several dozen students in this fair state, and after the appropriate drills have been more than comfortable putting each one of them on my own personal kites for guided practice, because I trust my guidance and their skill progression will keep them from dive bombing my gear.
Eric, I am not suggesting that all new kiters should go to Ramsey, and get after it. If one cannot maintain an upwind tack there, the ride is going to be short, not fun and as you've suggested, dangerous. That said, keep in mind that almost every kite beach that requires registration of its riders for the same reasons you have vocalized require a rider to be either 1. IKO level 3 (or its equivalent) certified OR 2: be accompanied by an instructor. I maintain that these launches for the indicated wind directions are wonderful places for students under the supervision of an instructor. It then becomes the responsibility of that instructor to guide a student to beginner friendly locations for independent practice.
Thanks for the response man, and I hope to chat this weekend at the gathering.
-JW
Your concerns are valid...safety is of utmost importance. Keep in mind though that Ramsey Beach is closed to swimmers because of water level and that there are 2-4 kite lengths worth of space between the shore and the shallows where kiters can still stand at Waconia. The fact of the matter is that riders that are still tomahawking kites into the ground are doing so because they didn't learn to fly the 4-line with an instructor standing behind, holding their harness, and giving specific instructions: "hold the kite at 1 o'clock, keep the kite moving through the lull, SHEET OUT!" Students that cannot demonstrate certain skills on a trainer should not move on to the 4-line, and when they do move onto the 4-line, it should be under vigilant supervision. This progression is determined by none other than the instructor. In education this is the "we-do" portion of the "i do, we-do, you-do" gradual release of responsibility. Without ground underfoot, I do not know an instructor on the planet that has the skills to give the level of instruction that gets a student comfortable with kite physics safely. I know this is not FL, but I have had several dozen students in this fair state, and after the appropriate drills have been more than comfortable putting each one of them on my own personal kites for guided practice, because I trust my guidance and their skill progression will keep them from dive bombing my gear.
Eric, I am not suggesting that all new kiters should go to Ramsey, and get after it. If one cannot maintain an upwind tack there, the ride is going to be short, not fun and as you've suggested, dangerous. That said, keep in mind that almost every kite beach that requires registration of its riders for the same reasons you have vocalized require a rider to be either 1. IKO level 3 (or its equivalent) certified OR 2: be accompanied by an instructor. I maintain that these launches for the indicated wind directions are wonderful places for students under the supervision of an instructor. It then becomes the responsibility of that instructor to guide a student to beginner friendly locations for independent practice.
Thanks for the response man, and I hope to chat this weekend at the gathering.
-JW
Re: Kiting around others on the lake
Sorry, but I did not feel that I was out of line to suggest that Rutherford is a much more appropriate site to conduct beginner instruction. Please refer to the lakes section of this very website which states, "Ramsey Beach is an expert only launch." I hope all instructors will keep this in mind when choosing a place to introduce others to this sport we all enjoy. I did not mean to be rude or unwelcoming, but just wanted to offer a friendly suggestion when it seemed our access may be in jeopardy. I hope that we all can keep our interactions on an open & honest footing, but still feel free to speak up when called for. If, in the process, I come across as a jerk, that is a price I'm willing to pay to continue riding Ramsey. Thanks to everyone for offering their views on this subject, and pray we can keep the dialogue going.
WARNING:
I AM AN UNREFORMED SERIAL FLIRT!!
(please respond accordingly ;^{})
I AM AN UNREFORMED SERIAL FLIRT!!
(please respond accordingly ;^{})