Discuss Saftey of Recovering Kiter with a Boat

[twill]

Hi All,

Currious to know if there is any knowledge to share regarding using a ski boat to recover a kiter? A friend and I are working a launch on a lake that requires a boat to get to. The launch is good (shallows, good space, no traffic) but we're still working on staying up-wind on the board. This means, there may be times where we need to recover the other kiter using a boat. Any tips, tricks, gotchas to recovering a kiter using a ski boat? Seems like the staying upwind from the kiter is an obvious one....


Thanks!
Tom

[JRN]

I HAVE TAKEN LESSONS FROM A BOAT. USUALLY The KITE RECOVERY INVOLVES: 1) Fly the kite to the side of the window and land it on its ear. Approach the kite
from the outside edge of the canopy,grab the LE and haul it into the boat. Or, position the boat at the side of the window & have a handler catch the kite. 2) Once the kite is secured, the LE is deflated as the kiter wraps up lines while approaching the boat.
It helps if the boat has lots of unubstructed deck space to avoid tangles, snags, or punctures. I think the pilot has to be mindful of downwind drift, and must strive to keep the vessel positioned up wind, while the kiter should practice good line management to avoid the prop. Maybe try a few dry runs without gear to get a feel for positioning, timing, etc. before putting yourselves or your euipment in jeopardy. Good Luck!!
Better yet, go take some lessons from Phillip Money at Windsurf Inc. @ SPI to see a real master boat handler in action.

[twill]

Good stuff JRN. Instinct would have had me going for the kiter in the water first, but thinking it through, it probably is much smarter to collect the kite first. Seems like two people in the boat would be required to be fully "safe" as well (a driver and collector).

Any other thoughts on if the kite is down in the water when you arive? Seems like it would be quite hard to keep the boat in a safe zone if the kite is at full downwind LE in the water...

[JRN]

WE HAD A FEW UNFORTUNATE INCIDENTS @ THE CROSSING...the volunteers charged with retrieving the stragglers were not very wind-savvy and ended up poking holes in several kites. Their boats would be blown down-wind as they stopped for the kiters. When they dragged the kites out of the water, the wind would catch them only to be blown onto sharp projections on the craft. In that case, it might be best that the kiter perform a self-rescue, have the kite deflated, the lines wrapped, etc. before retrieval. I have also been "rescued' by jet-skis which proved much less problematic. Some were equipped with the floating rear platform like the ones used in the big surf in Maui. Then it was a simple matter of wrapping lines, holding the LE with tips up, climbing up & holding on.

[Eric Bro]

Tom:

I've done this many times using a pontoon boat. Picking up a finished kiter in open water is tricky but doable. JRN's post is great. But since I don't have the skills of the Padre pros I use a different technique that works better for me. I keep a 100' plastic rope (ski type) with a 5" float and clip on the end of it handy in the front of the pontoon. It's fastened to a cleat on the front of the boat. The end clip needs enough mass so you can throw the line easily. Another small clip is tied into the line about 20' from the float end.

The kiter lands his/her kite and lets it drift downwind. The boat approaches the kiter from upwind and the rope is tossed beyond and to the side of the kiter. At this time put the boat gently in reverse, stern upwind, to keep it stationary and upwind of kiter and kite. A separate driver and assistant is necessary when first learning this! The kiter releases the chickenloop and swims to the float, and clips the flagging line of the kite to the rope. Once the kite is secure I sometimes partially deflate it to make it easier to pull to the boat; don't let water get into the bladder!

NOTE: While swimming around kite lines be very careful! Remember to have a knife handy! Always stay to the side of all lines as much as possible and approach the kite with great care!

Now, if the kiter clips the flagging line to the end clip you're going to have a tangled mess when you pull the kite to the boat. But if you clip the flagging line to the clip that is 20' (upwind) from the end of the rope, then attach the bar to the end clip using the chickenloop, you can pull the kite in and you have a reasonable chance of keeping the lines clear of tangles

And referring to JRN's post on the problems at the crossing, the 100' rope allows the boat to remain well clear of kite and kiter during the pickup, reducing potential of drifting over gear or kiter. But the driver must always remain diligent in not allowing the boat to drift downwind or damage can occur!

If you want to combine this with a boat launch, this technique works ok and (using a clip attached to the frame of the boat and connected to the chicken loop during the launch) you can launch on many lakes that are otherwise not kite-able. The side benefit is the fun you can have pulling the boat around with the kite during the launch sequence! I think a pontoon with a open space in front works much better than a boat, however, especially for the launch.

Good luck!

Eric Bro

[JRN]

I LIKE YOUR CONCEPT TOO, ERIC. Next time it's blowing at the cabin, I may have to give it a try. It sounds like you could self launch from the boat, & slide off the bow with your board. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm........

[twill]

Eric,

That's awesome. Exactly the type of ideas I was hoping to get... I was pretty nervous about how to get the boat close enough to the downwind kite. This is great.



Thanks,
Tom

[scottman]

I have used a Jet ski to land and launch from pretty simple with a jet ski, I can see where it would be a bit tricky with a boat. Launching from either just takes prep work on the shore, to run your lines correctly and wrap the lines on the bar correctly so when you are out in the water it's just a matter of keeping the boat of Ski pointed into the wind and the rider gets into the water without there board and swims away at a 90% angle while unwinding the lines, when you get to the end straighten out your lines hook in leash in and have the person on the Ski or boat walk the kite up and launch as you normally would. Then the boater tosses you your baord, if anyone would like to try Iit I have a new Ski this year, big platform, three person rocket ship, it would be fun to practice this and get a technique down with some key people. Whne the wind is up at Reddy I'm trying to figure out a way to anchor my ski so I can kite and be able to use it for the downwinders tha are just learning.

[Tighe]

We use the ski in our lessons so do dozens of these a month. The biggest challenge with boats and skis is that in a breeze they float faster downwind than a kiter in the water with a depowered kite. If not careful quickly you float over the lines. Here's what we do, some of it may be applicable to your situations. Might want to do a search on boat launch in this forum. It has been discussed at length previously.

For lauching:
We drift launch. We wrap the lines on the bar and make sure to take the lines around and under the LE to keep the lines on the right side of the kite ( and not loop the bar through the lines). We ride upwind with the kite fluttering off the back of the jetski. When upwind we drop the ski down to idle which keeps it moving forward slowly. The student then turns around (if not riding backward) then feeds the lines out over the canopy into the water. (holding the bar and the kite) The movement of the ski pulls the lines out downwind. Line check. Then they flip the kite over LE down. Line check-bridle check. Then if all looks good, I have them turn the kite 90 degrees and let go. (Turning is important otherwise it can end up LE into the wind downwind or rock in the waves and roll or launch. ) As the kite drifts down wind I have them hook the leash on and then the chicken loop. As the lines start to tighten I have them turn the bar upside down, check the lines, then turn the bar rightside up and jump in. Not too aggressively else the kite will roll. Then it's a standard launch. We use radio equipped helmets to stay with them as they launch the kite, body drag then toss them the board when ready.

Pick up:
I have the kiter put the kite on the wingtip on their left. The T3s we use will just sit on the side of the window, so this works well. If your kite doesn't it might be easier to hover the kite just above the water. I then swing downwind and come up just outside the kite and grab the LE (usually just a bridle line) with my left hand as I swing the ski into the wind toward the kiter. The left side works because you can keep your right hand on the throttle of the ski. This then slackens the lines and the kiter can relax. the kite just hovers above the water downwind of the ski. I then approach the kiter upwind of them and pass them with a bit of momentum. This way the lines are all out behind the ski. The kiter can then swim to the ski and get on. Remember the ski is floating downwind pretty fast when not under power. Once the rider is on, I usually start the ski and point a bit more into the wind (directly into the wind puts the kite I'm holding into them...or on them). They then wind the lines.

If the wind has just off and the kite is down on the water I will swing by the outside of the kite and grab one wingtip (usually a bridle) again with my left hand. I'll sweep out to one side before passing upwind of the rider to keep the lines from being downwind of me and prevent the chances of me floating over them.

I have not had great luck having someone on the boat launch a rider in the water. It's very hard to establish the correct orientation to the wind. Usually the boat or ski floats down wind quickly and puts the kite in a very powered position.

I think you could have the rider jump in the water, undo their lines as they tread backwards to one side, then you just set the kite on the water LE down and let it float into launch position.

hope some of that helps

tighe

[steveb]

I'm so pleased to see Tighe say " you come in from downwind" I've been biting my tongue about all the people writing they come in from upwind.
Not good technique because the wind blows you onto the object you're picking up. Coming from downwind you can use the wind to slow you,if you pick up the kite and take it to the stern of the boat you can avoid getting the lines wrapped. The boat will be travelling upwind away from the lines which naturally will blow downwind. If you miss the pick up it's easy to manuever the boat away from the kiter, if you angle the boat a little off the wind it'll help turn the bow away for another run in from downwind without being blown into the kite/kiter etc.
Coming from Downwind is just better seamanship period. OK I can stop chomping on the tongue now.

[JRN]

You're probably right, Steve. I was just remembering all the kites ripped at the crossing because they grabbed a kite on the upwind side, lifted it out of the water, the wind caught the kite and it was promptly skewered on the antenna. I can't recall, don't they teach "man-overboard" rescue to sail upwind of the subject and grab them on the leeward rail? I guess the skill involved is keeping the craft under a slight amount of power (as in Tighe's example) to avoid the downwind drift. I think that if the kite is parked "on its ear" you would be able to grab it from down wind as long as it is at the edge of the window. But if you grab it while it is dead down wind, resting on its nose, you'll have problems. I will, however, defer to your vast sailing experience as compared to my own, and admit I have alot to learn regardless.
Tighe's idea of grabbing a steering line bridle and hauling it to the side of the window would avoid the kite in the face incidents. How about grabbing from leeward, but then idling around to windward, while avoiding the lines, before hauling it on board? OKAY, NOW I'VE HAD TIME TO OBCESS : If a kite is parked on its ear at the side of the window, isn't the LE facing into the wind? In order to approach and grab the LE, wouldn't you come at it from the windward side? Please help me visualize this.....maybe I'm all wet.

[steveb]

The technique for picking up a man over board in a sailboat is to come from downwind. Primary reason is as you approach the swimmer you can point your boat head to wind, slowing the boat down, and enabling you to maintain a contstant heading while you drag their butt back on the boat. Coming from a reach or upwind makes grabing the swimmer and hauling them on board almost impossible.

When I was learning with Christian and we used a boat to support each other ,we'd park the kite on it's wing tip. Approach from downwind and behind the kite. Slow the boat to nearly a stop. Grab the kite on it's leading edge from behind the canopy .Walk to the back of the boat holding the LE vertical, the reason we did this is it stopped lines going under the boat. ( used a pontoon boat so you could do this) once the lines were slack because the kiter has swum towards the boat, lift the bottom wing out of the water until you could get the kite smiley face up. We found that winding the lines on the bar as you swam to the boat made things much easier and reduced tangles. There were times we were calling it a day when we just jumped on the boat and pulled the lines in, it would always result in a tangle but we were calling it a day anyway.
I'm not saying this is the way w to do it, I'm just describing what we did.

[JRN]

SORRY, I stand corrected. I'm a born skeptic & just wanted to get it straight in my mind. Thanks for helping me think it through, Steve. You know it takes a while to get it through my thick head !

[scottman]

A good source for the best way to do this would probably get a Real Kiteboarding coach on the line from NC and talk to them about how they do it down there being thats all they do and use?

[Tighe]

What I found when I was developing our school program was that the conditions here are so unique that I had to develop a lot of stuff from scratch. In Hatteras and in S. Padre it's shallow everywhere. Their rigging and launching areas are vastly different than ours. Very few even knew how to do a drift launch. They could do a self launch on the beach. Their techniques are more suitable for areas like Malmo where you can stand.

I've done our technique hundreds of times over the years with students. Just like riding you get a sense of how to adjust your technique based on the conditions. I'm sure I explained it poorly above and I'm sure there are other techniques that work.

Good discussion though.

[JimPat]

You guys are missing the boat on this one. I understand though, I miss my boat too( I digress). The first thing to do is to ask the kiter if he has any money or beer. If the answer is no, then there is no need to carry out any type of boat launch or rescue. I hope this simplify's the procedure. You don't approach them at all, they just get a stern look(thats a view of your boat from the backside/stern). If the answer is yes, I find it's best to get the money or beer first, it's just smart business. If they are out in the middle of the lake without either then that's just bad planning on their part. I've seen the guys' in the videos out on the ocean carrying a back pack. I suppose you guys thought they were carrying their lunch; these guys are pro's.

Jim Hoben/Hobie
Team writer/wanna be rider

[Eric Bro]

Ok, I think I'll try a different "tack"!!

I can fully understand why a jetski won't work from upwind; you can't back it up and maintain control, and you need to maintain thrust to keep it under control so you need to keep moving. You can't hold in position. And it's much easier to reach out from a jetski and grab a kite bridle or LE.

If you've got the cajones to reach out and grab an inflated kite from your boat while headed into a brisk headwind, that's fine, but I still think I have better control with the approach from upwind, but only with the throw line technique, and here's why:

The most stable way to control a small boat or pontoon from my experience (ask any walleye fisherman) is to hold the aft of the boat into the wind. The turning prop acts like a pivot, and the wind blows the boat downwind of the prop like a weathervane. A very stable configuration. On the other hand, if you approach from downwind and the bow of the boat is pointed upwind, any gust will push the elevated bow to one side causing catastrophe if you're anywhere near kite or lines.

I suppose you could back the boat up from the downwind side, but then you've got a rotating prop pointed toward the kite, and the kite could take off and tumble into the boat.

With the boat stable and upwind of the kite, and the kite is clipped to the boat on a 100' line and flagged nicely, the boat slowly moving backward just enough to keep lines from going slack, you can work from the front of the boat and pull in lines and gear into the boat and keep them clear of boat and prop. If it's a pontoon with a platform in front, you've got the perfect place to work from. And there's no need to grab the kite from the boat. You can even swim out, take your time, and deflate it partially to aid in bringing it in. Or leave the kite clipped in and relaunch.

I only recommend the approach if you use the throw rope technique to get the kite secured while it is still well away from the boat.

[Eric Bro]

And (oops); here's a problem with the backwards technique

Obviously, if you have a boat with a low transom this would not be a good idea in heavy chop! Floundering in heavy waves with a kite attached is an ugly image! Maybe stick to a pontoon or a larger walleye type boat with a deep V designed for back trolling, and to small to medium size lakes.