hi guys - ive been kiting for a few years now on a patched together quiver and am looking to streamline things a bit. i found a nice deal for a handful of fuels ('06-'07) and a machine. anyway, for slingshots, i already have a diesel 13m with the stock bar and was wondering if i could get away with using that bar/line setup for the fuels/machine. im not real up on knowing anything at all about cross compatibility so any insights you guys can offer would be greatly appreciated.
ep
diesel bar on a fuel
Moderator: MK
Re: diesel bar on a fuel
The bar should be fine on the 06 Fuel and Machine but I think they changed the bar on the Fuels in 07. They brought the cleat down below the bar and gave it much more depowering. Probably would work just wouldn't get the full performance out of the kite. Also the Fuels and Machine were 5 line. The Diesel was 4 line. Again, you'll be able to fly with the kites in 4 line but relaunch and performance will be sacrificed. I may still have a 5 line conversion if you want it. I'd have to check.
Another thing to think about is the size of the bar. If your bar is smaller, like a 17 or 23 it'll really slow down the Machine. You want a big bar for those big kites.
hope that helps
Another thing to think about is the size of the bar. If your bar is smaller, like a 17 or 23 it'll really slow down the Machine. You want a big bar for those big kites.
hope that helps
Tighe
Re: diesel bar on a fuel
Hi palmby,
welcome to the forum. Stoked to hear you found a good deal on some Fuels and a Machine, love those kites!! the 07 fuels are amazing!! enjoy.
To answer your question, Yes that bar will work just fine. might turn the Machine a bit slow but will work no prob. might wanna do some bar tuning check the lines make sure their in good shape, check for stretched lines etc. and you might need to do some adjusting for your 5th lines for each kite make sure each kite has its own leter line/5th line attachment.
Hope this helps .
welcome to the forum. Stoked to hear you found a good deal on some Fuels and a Machine, love those kites!! the 07 fuels are amazing!! enjoy.
To answer your question, Yes that bar will work just fine. might turn the Machine a bit slow but will work no prob. might wanna do some bar tuning check the lines make sure their in good shape, check for stretched lines etc. and you might need to do some adjusting for your 5th lines for each kite make sure each kite has its own leter line/5th line attachment.
Hope this helps .
Re: diesel bar on a fuel
HA Tighe u r to fast, He will be able to get full performance with the old bar just will not get the Depower that the 07 bar has.
Oh yea, woops thanks Tighe I forget that that Deisel bar came with no 5th line , I always just upgraded and put one in and take out the APreverse launch and just use the 5th line for relaunch and depower . I like the direct feel of it better that way .
I dont feel you ll lose performance with the 4 line just relaunch ability and safety depower below the bar which is nice. all the new Fuels are coming stock with 4 lines, back to the roots
Oh yea, woops thanks Tighe I forget that that Deisel bar came with no 5th line , I always just upgraded and put one in and take out the APreverse launch and just use the 5th line for relaunch and depower . I like the direct feel of it better that way .
I dont feel you ll lose performance with the 4 line just relaunch ability and safety depower below the bar which is nice. all the new Fuels are coming stock with 4 lines, back to the roots
Re: diesel bar on a fuel
thanks a bunch for the speedy feedback guys. youve definitely raised some questions that i havnt even thought of just because of the limited amount of equipment ive had experience with. for the record, my diesel has what appears to be a 17" (measured between the rubber ends).
i was wondering if you guys had any pictures of your bars w/5th line setups. and/or what the 5th line conversion consists of for my current setup. lookin at this, i suppose my 17" would potentially choke the machine in already light conditions...
also, couldnt i regain all that depower by running a longer chicken loop line and moving the cleat under the bar myself? i know it would probably take making a new body for the bar so i could run the line through the bar twice but ive got a nice university physics lab (and sewing machine...) at my disposal and have toyed with the idea of making own carbon bar anyway. anyone with experience with making their own?
sorry for the random laundry list of questions, but im really striving for a simple to manage quiver as simply as possible. if i were to switch to a bigger bar would there be any real strong negatives for running it with the smaller kites in my quiver?
thanks again!
ep
i was wondering if you guys had any pictures of your bars w/5th line setups. and/or what the 5th line conversion consists of for my current setup. lookin at this, i suppose my 17" would potentially choke the machine in already light conditions...
also, couldnt i regain all that depower by running a longer chicken loop line and moving the cleat under the bar myself? i know it would probably take making a new body for the bar so i could run the line through the bar twice but ive got a nice university physics lab (and sewing machine...) at my disposal and have toyed with the idea of making own carbon bar anyway. anyone with experience with making their own?
sorry for the random laundry list of questions, but im really striving for a simple to manage quiver as simply as possible. if i were to switch to a bigger bar would there be any real strong negatives for running it with the smaller kites in my quiver?
thanks again!
ep
Re: diesel bar on a fuel
Ill look if I have a pic of the 5th line system , hopefully Eric P can chime in he is a genius at making converting and making systems up!
Yes you can make the throw of the bar longer by adding a longer chicken loop which will give you more depower. Ive never made my own bar just pieced them together from diffrent parts of bars.
I personally dont like big bars and I like my kites to turn slow so I actually cut down some of my bars, if you put a big bar on smaller kites it will just turn them faster/ small bar on big kite turns them slower.
I will try to find the pic for you. maybe someone has one though they can put up.
link for some parts: http://www.slingshotsports.com/kiteboar ... nd_rigging
close out parts: http://www.buyslingshotsports.com/kiteb ... ials-parts
bar: http://www.buyslingshotsports.com/s.nl/ ... gory=13188
Yes you can make the throw of the bar longer by adding a longer chicken loop which will give you more depower. Ive never made my own bar just pieced them together from diffrent parts of bars.
I personally dont like big bars and I like my kites to turn slow so I actually cut down some of my bars, if you put a big bar on smaller kites it will just turn them faster/ small bar on big kite turns them slower.
I will try to find the pic for you. maybe someone has one though they can put up.
link for some parts: http://www.slingshotsports.com/kiteboar ... nd_rigging
close out parts: http://www.buyslingshotsports.com/kiteb ... ials-parts
bar: http://www.buyslingshotsports.com/s.nl/ ... gory=13188
Re: diesel bar on a fuel
Which Diesel bar is it? Grey and Red or Black? I think the Grey and Red may be aluminium and if so I wouldn't put too much $ into rehabbing them. If it is black it's the same as the bar that came with the Fuels.
Unlike Nathan, I prefer to have a bigger bar for bigger kites. When you have to sine wave a big kite on a small bar, you better have strong arms. When riding powered up not as much of an issue...could be seen as more stable.
I really liked the 5th line for on the fly tuning, more for the Machine and bigger Fuels. The conversion kit has a cleat below the bar that allows you to flatten out the kite in light winds. As Nathan mentioned you can just add one for relaunching much easier.
I may have the spare parts to do the conversion to an 07 style bar, ie. the chicken loop/cleat and longer line to double it back. Otherwise I know you can get them from Slingshot.
My recommendation though would be to buy a stock bar. Whatever you do here, is going to require some tuning. There is a lot that goes into that and it's a lot of time, to adjust, put it in the air, adjust again, put it up again. Since it doesn't sound like you are that experienced, I'd try to get the help of someone who knows how to tune the bar/lines for those kites. There are only a handful in the area because the majority of the riders have switched to Bow or Hybrid style kites. If I'm at the lake, I'd be more than willing to look over what you come up with.
I don't mean to discourage you from doing it, but just wanted to let you know what you're getting into.
good luck
tighe
Unlike Nathan, I prefer to have a bigger bar for bigger kites. When you have to sine wave a big kite on a small bar, you better have strong arms. When riding powered up not as much of an issue...could be seen as more stable.
I really liked the 5th line for on the fly tuning, more for the Machine and bigger Fuels. The conversion kit has a cleat below the bar that allows you to flatten out the kite in light winds. As Nathan mentioned you can just add one for relaunching much easier.
I may have the spare parts to do the conversion to an 07 style bar, ie. the chicken loop/cleat and longer line to double it back. Otherwise I know you can get them from Slingshot.
My recommendation though would be to buy a stock bar. Whatever you do here, is going to require some tuning. There is a lot that goes into that and it's a lot of time, to adjust, put it in the air, adjust again, put it up again. Since it doesn't sound like you are that experienced, I'd try to get the help of someone who knows how to tune the bar/lines for those kites. There are only a handful in the area because the majority of the riders have switched to Bow or Hybrid style kites. If I'm at the lake, I'd be more than willing to look over what you come up with.
I don't mean to discourage you from doing it, but just wanted to let you know what you're getting into.
good luck
tighe
Tighe
Re: diesel bar on a fuel
its black with slingshot on it in gray.
i agree that a bigger bar for a bigger kite would be good but i think for the sake of making it work, but i can afford to be patient and wait for a decent deal to pop up... (anybody have ~23 inch a 5 line bar theyre lookin to offload...?)
as you mention, people ive talked to say the machine, (and i assume to some extent the larger fuels) need the 5th line for maintaining shape so i definitely want to run it. what would you want for the spare parts to convert and would you have the goods to put together a 5th line with that?
i already noticed with diesel that i havnt had enough cleatable depower range so ive already cut down the knob assembly on the chicken loop line and moved the cleat in closer to the bar. this limited my bar travel by about an inch, but left my uncleated length the same, and i have another full inch of travel to sheet in.
if i could get the longer chicken loop line then id really be able to get things set the way i want. is the longer line a smaller diameter or do i need a bar with a bigger hole in it? if id need a bigger hole id probably try a smaller dia chicken loop line and cleat - raid the sailing hardware bin... thoughts?
what does it take to get the ends off the bars? i just feel like theres so much tinker potential here...
i do agree that a stock bar with everything already set seem like a good plan but i really do just love to play...
can i macguyver a 5th line with just a regular line, and a leader line, some shock cord, and a stopper ball on my setup as it is already? having had limited and barely memorable experience with one in the past, i think that covers all the bases...
and let me add - your responses in no way make you liable for whatever dumb things i do, but if they work you can check them out. you wont hear about the failures...
thanks again for all your time
i agree that a bigger bar for a bigger kite would be good but i think for the sake of making it work, but i can afford to be patient and wait for a decent deal to pop up... (anybody have ~23 inch a 5 line bar theyre lookin to offload...?)
as you mention, people ive talked to say the machine, (and i assume to some extent the larger fuels) need the 5th line for maintaining shape so i definitely want to run it. what would you want for the spare parts to convert and would you have the goods to put together a 5th line with that?
i already noticed with diesel that i havnt had enough cleatable depower range so ive already cut down the knob assembly on the chicken loop line and moved the cleat in closer to the bar. this limited my bar travel by about an inch, but left my uncleated length the same, and i have another full inch of travel to sheet in.
if i could get the longer chicken loop line then id really be able to get things set the way i want. is the longer line a smaller diameter or do i need a bar with a bigger hole in it? if id need a bigger hole id probably try a smaller dia chicken loop line and cleat - raid the sailing hardware bin... thoughts?
what does it take to get the ends off the bars? i just feel like theres so much tinker potential here...
i do agree that a stock bar with everything already set seem like a good plan but i really do just love to play...
can i macguyver a 5th line with just a regular line, and a leader line, some shock cord, and a stopper ball on my setup as it is already? having had limited and barely memorable experience with one in the past, i think that covers all the bases...
and let me add - your responses in no way make you liable for whatever dumb things i do, but if they work you can check them out. you wont hear about the failures...
thanks again for all your time
Re: diesel bar on a fuel
Dude,
if you like to tinker, I've got tons of parts than you can have to work with. I may even have a bar.
Once it warms up a hair more, if you can stop by we can hit the garage and see what I have. I know bar minimum I have line and a chicken loop for ya.
feel free to email me offline
fly at lakawa dot com
if you like to tinker, I've got tons of parts than you can have to work with. I may even have a bar.
Once it warms up a hair more, if you can stop by we can hit the garage and see what I have. I know bar minimum I have line and a chicken loop for ya.
feel free to email me offline
fly at lakawa dot com
Tighe
Re: diesel bar on a fuel
Palmby: I've done just about everything you are talking about and it isn't very hard. I've even cut down lines and resown the ends to get the lines the right length. Cutting the bars down isn,t hard, making them longer is, probably impossible. I agree with Nathan though, shorter is usually better, unless the wind is light, especially with those old C kites. At one point I was having problems finding a sliding stopper ball for the double back depower regime, so I carved one from wood, and it worked great. As for the hole in the bar, don't try to drill it out to get the double back to work, it causes too much wear on the depower line, and restricts movement of the bar too much (the inside of the bar is too rough, that is why Slingshot has gone with the stainless dugout inserts). I have a bar I love. I removed the floats, took off the Oh Shit handles, shortened the lines (20 meter). Super minimalistic design. Nothing to get tangled. The only thing that could be better is a pully bar (I have one of those now too).
Tweaking bars is fun, and really teaches you about how the kite works. Just make sure in the end, that all your lines are the same length when the bar is in the fully powered mode (depower strap all the way out, bar all the way to the chicken loop). This includes the fifth line. Then, just make up a line connected to the kite that is the right length for hooking that line to. Test it all on a fairly light wind day, and progress from there.
All this said, in the end I now ride a pretty stock Slingshot bar. They really are the best on the market. I really like the new rev safety system. Works great on all hybrid kites, but not well on your old C kites unfortunately. Have fun, and ask any questions you want. I might be able to answer it.
Tweaking bars is fun, and really teaches you about how the kite works. Just make sure in the end, that all your lines are the same length when the bar is in the fully powered mode (depower strap all the way out, bar all the way to the chicken loop). This includes the fifth line. Then, just make up a line connected to the kite that is the right length for hooking that line to. Test it all on a fairly light wind day, and progress from there.
All this said, in the end I now ride a pretty stock Slingshot bar. They really are the best on the market. I really like the new rev safety system. Works great on all hybrid kites, but not well on your old C kites unfortunately. Have fun, and ask any questions you want. I might be able to answer it.
Eric