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 Post subject: Advice, kiting, sailing in winter
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 12:45 pm
Posts: 1
Location: BURNSVILLE MINNESOTA
What advice or tips would experienced winter kiter have for someone new to this? I realize this is the wrong season, but I tend to shop around for a while. I figure I might as well get started well before the "season". I also may need to build items.

If I were to purchase a kite, what are recommended brands?
I am looking at the Ozone Frenzy 7.3 m kite for starting.

Ideals on how to use my windsurfing sails would also be appreciated.

When the water is not frozen, I tend to windsurf, kayak and canoe, when I have time. Tips for windsurfing around kiters is well appreciated. I do not plan to use the kite during the "warmer" months in Minnesota.

Another ideal, which may not be possible i, is t to use the kite when winter camping. I would have a pulk or tow behind sled with my gear.

So far, I have found an old pair of downhill skis (straight edge). I have never been on a snowboard. I would prefer to avoid purchasing more gear, except for a kite or materials to use the windsurfer sails.

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SCOTT BEMIS
EMAIL: SEBEMIS@SELF-SERV.NET
BURNSVILLE MN


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 8:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:42 pm
Posts: 864
Location: MN, USA, Earth
Tighe posted a good article about windsurfing around kiters http://www.lakawa.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=250 on this forum.

If you have skies and a kite you are perty much ready to go. Other things you may consider:

A formal or informal lesson about the basics.

Ice screw to stake foil out when landing or launching and some orange or red banner to mark it.

Helment, elbow pads and maybe impact shorts

Small plastic sled for hauling your gear back and forth to your vehicle if there is a long walk to the launch site.

Windmeter if you are not familiar with judging windspeeds yet. Using one can be a rough guide for which kite to use.

A windsurfing harness that will fit over your bulky winter clothes

A set of ice claws if could never hurt. You can build these. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... =ice+claws The good thing about a kite is that you are connected to some strong line. A rescuer might be able to assist by pulling on the lines. Wear A Leash so you don't loose your kite.

Windsurf Sails:

I've seen many contraptions. I think building or buying an ice board would be the way to go in the winter. You really need to be powered up to go on the snow with any boards I've seen around here. I have yet to seen anyone pull off a nice jibe in the snow. I might be looking in the wrong places though. Ice is a totally different matter, it rocks!

http://www.downhaul.com/icesail/


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 10:06 pm
Posts: 5270
Location: Here, Now
Below is an article from a few years back. Most of it still holds true.

Also check, Kitesnowboard.net, kitesnowboard.com, and Realkiteboarding.com


Go for the Snow !
By Trip Forman



What kind of wetsuit suit boots do you use in the winter ? What kind of drysuit ? How do you deal with your wake bindings feeling like stiff bricks when the temperature through the floor ? One word answers all of these questions...SNOW. Last year, as soon as the weather went down the toilet, I headed north. First to Buffalo to score
some early season lake effect powder. Then we headed to Michigan for a Christmas week bender on the Michigan Autobahn. Finally, to snow buried New England for February and March where we scored some of the biggest dumps in recorded history.

I didn’t buy one lift ticket last year. I sent my friends off to go Heli-riding without me. They thought I was crazy. How crazy is riding with just your friends and scoring uncrowded, fresh snow every session ? How crazy is seeing knee deep untracked powder to the horizon in EVERY direction, knowing it’s all yours and it won’t ever get tracked up before you leave. How crazy is spending $15 on lunch for four people ?
I’m all set with lift tickets. Going off kickers in the park is gonna feel like I’ve got a cinder block in my pants after riding a kite all winter. I guess the mountains are good for no wind days.....but then again I think we’ll be building our kite park on those days with a snow plow and a couple of shovels.

Here are a few quick tips from what we learned last winter :

Pick the right place: This is the number one most important thing about
kiteboarding in the snow. You have to find a wide open space with steady breeze and good snow cover. Don’t go for the 3PM golf course session at the bottom of your riding mountain. You’ll end up getting worked and hating the sport. Would you go water riding in a lake on a golf course ? No. Take the time to find the right spot. Get away from the mountains because they make the wind gusty. Keep your eyes open on the way to the mountain for wide open spaces with steady breeze. Big frozen lakes with good snow cover are also good. Again, picking the right place is the number one rule.

Dress for success : Think about what you’d wear to go on a long run in the winter and you start to get the idea. Don’t wear what you’d wear on the mountain. When you’re kiteboarding, you’re always working and your body stays a lot warmer. For most of last year, all I wore was a thermal long sleeve shirt and a shell jacket, thin
gloves and a thin hat. That worked all the way to single digits Fahrenheit. The first couple of days, we dressed like we were going to the mountain and we ended up sweating ourselves into a pool. Because of all the sweat, wear clothes that wick the moisture away. Cotton won’t do this and will end up soaked and you’ll freeze. Some people wear pads under their clothes for hard landings. These would include knee pads (plastic capped), hockey style pants with butt pads, wrist guards and helmets.We wore them all in the beginning (because we, probably like you, thought we were
going to kill ourselves). We did “grow out” of using them after realizing that the kite softens every landing and makes even the worst wipeouts a cakewalk compared to riding on a mountain. Using a helmet, regardless of your ability, is never a bad idea.

Eye-yay-yay : You’ll need sunglasses or goggles to keep the wind out of your eyes.
Otherwise you’ll be crying like a baby. Goggles are better because they stay dry when you take gas.

Choose your board : Any snowboard or skis will work. If you have a choice, go with a snowboard that’s wide so you can go duck stance with no heel drag. You have to go duck because you’ll be riding fakie half the time. I rode duck 12 degree angles front and back. Try and get your bindings centered over the length of the board. This is difficult with a lot of the newer boards because their inserts are centered an inch or more aft of center. If so, slide your bindings all the way forward on their adjustments to get as close as possible to the center of the board. To check if you are close, find the center point of the board and mark it. Then find the center point of your bindings, then mark it. The two should be as close as possible. Snowboards have an advantage over skis because you can square off against the kite for more power. If you’ve never used a snowboard and are a die hard expert skier then you’ll probably feel more comfortable on those (unless you’re riding a wake or twin on the water
already)

Tune and Wax : Tune and wax your board to perfection. Kiteboarding on snow is all about edging and speed. The sharper your edge, the faster you’ll go and the more kite you can hold on hard pack. The smoother and better waxed your base is, the faster you’ll go on flat snow. This translates to bigger airs once you start to jump. Good and bad sessions are many times directly related to the tune job on your board. Get a tuning kit, cheap used iron and wax and learn how to do it yourself. It makes a huge difference.

Boots and bindings : Two strap freestyle bindings work well but step ins are more
convenient for launching, re-launching, and landing the kite. Go with the softest/lightest boots you can find because you don’t need as much support and the comfort/weight will be a huge advantage for all the walking you’ll be doing.

What kites to bring : Bring them all including the big ones. We screwed ourselves on the first trip by thinking we’d be using only small kites. We left all the big ones at home. Big mistake. Don’t be fooled into thinking winter is all windy days. You’d be urprised how many light days there are once you start following the weather.

What size to rig : Rig smaller than what you would take on the water for the first several sessions. After you feel comfortable riding on your snowboard or skis, you can go as big as you dare. By the end of last year we were holding close to as much as we can on the water.

Blimps ? : Blimps work on the snow but some people complain about the valves leaking due to cold temps. Others swear by them b/c of sheeting ability and extreme jumping (and claim to never have had bladder/valve problems). Re-launching them can be a problem because there’s no friction on the snow to get them to flip over.
Reverse bridals can cure this problem. Also, sticking aggressive male sided velcro or hard foam squares on the center of the leading edge will give the snow something to “catch” on to flip your helmet over. If you already have a quiver, go out there and use them. Your knowledge of how they work and your comfort behind the bar will translate to instant fun your first days on the snow.

Foils : Foils have an advantage in that you don’t have to stand in the cold and pump them up. They also pack a lot smaller. Their disadvantages include more technical rigging and tuning, and the fact that most people can’t ride two line style to edge them out of the window. They are easier to re-launch than blimps if they’re equipped
with third line re-launch.

Bars or handles ? : Once and for all, handles are dead. There’s a group of Euro riders claiming handles are the best for snow because they allow better maneuvering of the kite and also allow you to back it down. Needless to say, this is the same group who preached them for the water and who now are riding skis and doing bent leg spread eagles and double daffys. Riding snow will become just as technically board trick related as riding water. Therefore you want a bar for your kite so you can just “forget about” the kite and concentrate on your riding. Handles are nice for doing kite tricks with your ballet skis.

Terrain : Terrain like small rolls and banks in the land are really cool for riding once you’ve got it wired. It will basically change your snow kiting session into a Playstation Tony Hawk skateboard session. Rolls and banks are transformed into huge gap jumps, * pipes and breaking ocean waves.

Private Land : Some of the best riding out there will be on private land. Make sure
and check with the owner before poaching it. Last year, almost everyone we asked said yes, plus many of them came out to watch and take pictures. One even brought us lunch ! (What would you expect ? They’re bored out of their minds until the snow melts and the farming begins)

Buried Obstacles : All of the riding you’ll be doing is in an uncontrolled environment. This means that there are no ski patrol guys groomin the land, removing buried obstacles, etc. Keep an open eye for buried tree stumps, fences, rocks etc. What looks like a fun lump in the snow to jump off of could very well be a tree stump that could end your season. We never had any problems last year, but then again the guys I rode with were also pretty careful about checking out the terrain before they launched it.

Learning on snow : Learning to kiteboard is far easier on flat snow than on water
.

_________________
Tighe
End of Session Productions
www.endofsession.com

LAKAWA, Founder Emeritus
Sponsored by Slingshot Kiteboarding


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 Post subject: Re: Advice, kiting, sailing in winter
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:15 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:17 pm
Posts: 3
Found this post and very much appreciate the info.

I am an experienced windsurfer and snowsurfer and want to get into kiting, starting on snow. I have a Prism P3 foil for training and can control it well, so I'm ready to get my first bigger kite.

My question is this: The original post was in 2002. Has the thinking on foil versus inflatable changed for snowkiting? I am looking at the Liquid Force 12m Ranger versus one of the newer bow kites. It seems like the inflatables have advanced faster than the foils and are, from what I read, more controllable over a wider range of wind. True? A secondary consideration is dual-use. I landsurf on a terra board but am not too interested in kiting on land. I do think I would probably progress to kiting on water next summer, so investing the extra money in an inflatable seems to make sense.

Any advice?

Thanks!

-Don


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 Post subject: Re: Advice, kiting, sailing in winter
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 10:06 pm
Posts: 5270
Location: Here, Now
I would then consider a bow kite from the last few years. The 2008s are on closeouts now and can be picked up for the price of a inexpensive foil. They will have greater range and can be used on water as well. Midwest has a huge selection of Slingshot T3s on closeouts. Contact Peter Noren down there and he can help you assess your options. 612.339.3433

Feel free to call me anytime to discuss this further. 651.428.4121

_________________
Tighe
End of Session Productions
www.endofsession.com

LAKAWA, Founder Emeritus
Sponsored by Slingshot Kiteboarding


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