LAKAWA

It is currently Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:57 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:06 pm
Posts: 162
Simon and I have ridden Malmo in the past and had a fair amount of success on the water. We have ridden 4 seasons on snow so I feel that we have a pretty good handle on that. On the water though, I still need more practice at riding upwind and plan to make a few trips up to Mille over the summer. I have some questions when it comes to riding on smaller lakes (and even Malmo) when you do not have another person to help you get onto and off of the lake. I am comfortable launching, riding, relaunching, and parking on the water but the initial entry and exit of the lake without a helper has me worried. My questions are basically questions about logistics:

(1) ENTERING THE LAKE - How do you get yourself and your gear (kite, lines, board) out onto the water if there is not a nice wide beach or grassy area to setup and launch from? Do you pump up the kite, setup the lines, and then wrap them up on the bar and carry everything out onto the water? Please explain how you get to the point that you are sitting in the water with the kite downwind of you and ready to launch. How do you avoid tangles?

(2) EXITING THE LAKE - Once you are ready to stop riding, what do you do to get off of the water? I typically ride back to the starting area and land the kite on the water, but at that point I have a buddy come and grab the kite. How you get the kite and lines pulled in without making a serious mess or having the kite relaunch on you if there is no helper? Please explain.

OK - I forgot about the search button. Sorry. I think I found what I need.

Thank you,
Travis


Last edited by Travii on Wed May 27, 2009 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PLEASE EXPLAIN - Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:13 pm
Posts: 1130
Location: White Bear Lake, MN, USA
Try searching lakawa with the following terms:

drift launch and self landing - lots of discussions and tips.

Here's a good post for drift launching: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9298&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=drift+launch

With the drop off at Ramsey (and Wildwood) drift launching may not be doable this year at these locations. Also, it will be interesting to see how busy it is at Ramsey given the beach "closure". I'm on the fence as to whether we should be kiting there once the summer season really get's going....especially during the weekends....Rutherford is a much better alternative in terms of "risk avoidance".

_________________
http://twitter.com/davidmzimmerman


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:39 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Mahtomedi,MN
I rigged up an anchor with a bouy and a carabiner to launch just like in the winter. It is an 18 lb plastic coated anchor with a section of chain and rope with a clip. I like to drag the lines out from just onshore but paying the out on the water will work too. Clip your chicken loop to the anchor and walk your kite to the edge of the window where it will "hang out" waiting for you.. Grab the top center line and walk it up to the bar. The anchor I have will drag if I dont have control of the kite's power by holding the upper center line. Once you make it to the bar your set. Un hook your board (which you left there before connected to the line) Hook in to the chicken loop and leash. Viola! So far I am the only one that I know of that uses this technique. Tight Lines!

_________________
Patrick


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 4:38 pm
Posts: 1142
Location: 44.9286, -93.60828
Reds wrote:
I rigged up an anchor with a bouy and a carabiner to launch just like in the winter. It is an 18 lb plastic coated anchor with a section of chain and rope with a clip. I like to drag the lines out from just onshore but paying the out on the water will work too. Clip your chicken loop to the anchor and walk your kite to the edge of the window where it will "hang out" waiting for you.. Grab the top center line and walk it up to the bar. The anchor I have will drag if I dont have control of the kite's power by holding the upper center line. Once you make it to the bar your set. Un hook your board (which you left there before connected to the line) Hook in to the chicken loop and leash. Viola! So far I am the only one that I know of that uses this technique. Tight Lines!

Reds: This type of launch is commonly done on a broad beach where the CL is attached to an immovable object. There is also a new product that is mentioned on a thread at KF that screws into the ground , which could be used in sand or mud in shallow water. You might be creating a lethal weapon by using the 18lb anchor. This is a very light weight for a power kite. If the bar becomes unbalanced the kite could take off launching the anchor into the air. You or a bystander could be killed. Your concept is sound but you might want to think about creating or finding a temporary immovable anchor at your launch.

Travaii: There are some real pro drift launchers on this forum who do it all the time. Problem is, it takes a lot of typing to describe the techniques and issues involved. Kite brand used is a factor also. Best to search the board first and then ask some relevant questions. You should be able to find a lot of info by searching. A real life demonstration will fill in the blanks.

Actually I have some issues with my TD3 myself!! Anyone been drifting this kite? I have an 11m and the sucker looks ready to take off due to the leading edge lifting off the water all the time. I load the LE down with water between the canopy and the tube which solves the problem for launching, but self landing on water without an immovable object is pretty sketchy. I tested it and it stayed down but I had my hand on the QR all the time as it looked like it was going to do a hot launch on me. I was in a bit of a wind shadow which helped. In full wind and waves I don't think it can be done. Maybe pulling the safety and flagging the kite would be the way to go with the TD3 when self landing on water.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 242
Last year was my 1st on the water. Early in the year I decided to not accept help in launches and landings. I drift launched and self landed every time I went in and out. I did this because I wanted to perfect my drift lauch and get real good at pulling the release So in times of panic it would be automatic. I had some problems early on but eventually got it down. I agree in high winds and waves it is safer to have some one launch your kite for you. However drift launch and self landing are important skills, and can be perfected. A written discription of all the steps would be long and possibly confusing. However I would be willing to share my experiance and method with anyone that asks. I can be found at Waconia when it blows unless the direction is wrong. Then I am at Milacs or Washington. My cell is 330-354-9538. Look me up for on water demo.
TL


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:52 pm
Posts: 319
Tom L, I've been drifting the T3 perpendicular to the wind direction. As I release the kite I let go of the bar and back up wind as fast as I can go. A couple of times my 11 looked like it was going to roll or turn before it reached launch position but so far no mishaps there. With the bar in the water the kite usually turns and stays on it's side, it's easier to move into the window. Weeds have caused me the biggest problem. One 360 at the end and it's time to pull the QR, I've made the mistake of trying to shake the weeds off the lines, too risky! I've landed the 11 in gusty chop conditions. I let go of the bar, then I right left or left right to the top flying line.Once I pull on that line and the kite is leading edge down, I hang on to the line and work my way up the line quickly to the kite. I make sure I am not tangled in the lines. The safest way would be to flag the kite. The kite did fly off the water once but 3 lines were slack and I could hold the fourth. I've only done this when I'm solo. If anyone was nearby I would flag the kite, or if they were kiters, tap for a catch.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 4:38 pm
Posts: 1142
Location: 44.9286, -93.60828
Thanks Dean.... I use the same technique as you for self landing but since I have a good stationary object at my home launch (my neighbors dock) I have been resorting to that technique when it's windy & choppy, for landing. The T3's and T2's are kind of weird. The LE will rise off the water a few inches but due to the air currents on the canopy it always seems to go back down. But watching it bounce up & down like that is not comforting to say the least. My Cabrinhas seem to stay on the water more. C kites seem to stay glued to the water also, quite a difference.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 10:06 pm
Posts: 5274
Location: Here, Now
When we teach we drift launch off of the jetski so I've done it hundreds of times. The key I have found and what we teach is to turn the kite parallel to the wind wing tip to wingtip. If you release the kite with the LE into the wind a wave can rock it up and wind can catch under it (never had it happen but I assume it could happen) or it can end up down wind with the LE facing into the wind (180 degrees from launch position) which can be tricky to swing around. Much easier to twist the kite 90 degrees before releasing it.

hope that helps.

_________________
Tighe


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:52 pm
Posts: 319
I think "teach" is the operative word. Jerry Sandel spent a lot of time teaching me how to drift launch. Jerry showed me how to put the kite over my head while unwrapping my lines in the water. It's easy to spot briddle tangles and line loops. We had a lot of under the kite time.....I miss that, where is Jerry?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 8:57 pm
Posts: 723
Location: South Haven, Mn.
:shock:

_________________
"The Pessimist complains about the wind; the optomist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails." William Arther Ward


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 5:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:06 pm
Posts: 162
I guess I knew that the safety of drift launching and self landing is questionable at best. Basically, it looks to me like it's a hell of a lot riskier on water than on snow. And it seems that luck is definitely part of the equation.

Thanks for the pointers.

Travis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:43 pm
Posts: 281
Location: Litchfield, Mn
Like Dean I also had Jerry around to teach me the drift launches and solo landings. Out here in the boonies we are often alone on the lake and don't have the support of other kiters for help so it becomes essential to to become proficient or we wouldn't be riding. I have had my smaller kites, 9 and 7 flip up on a wave and roll. Need to be ready. The parallel push off and hands off the bar seem to work well. I have had my 20 relaunch in a gust after landing close to shore and it only took once for me to rethink that program. Hats off to Jerry for his willingness to share his many hours of riding with us Newbies.
Dawn patrol on Washington. Ellsworth.
Peter


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Water startup and shutdown techniques.
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 7:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:13 am
Posts: 139
Travii, are you the guy i saw on the end of rice lake this winter? i had the big yellow 13 mtr Bully, my buddy had the blue slingshot. if that was you, yeah i remember you vaguely. hahaha. we should really get out this summer!! i had a nice sesh today at centerville lake....lots of people though. all the kids were stoked to see a huge kite....but i was VERYYY SAFE. read that again all of you. EVERYTHING WENT VERY SAFELY AND SMOOTHLY. lovely. i actually rode today, smoothly. it was fun!!





G MAN

_________________
Go big or go home. whatever you do in life, do it like your pro.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO