LAKAWA

It is currently Wed May 22, 2019 9:42 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 10:01 am
Posts: 654
Location: Forest Lake
Windsurf Foiling


Around 2001 I saw some guys in Maui adding a paddle to their surfboards. My closed mind attitude judged it as ‘stupid’. I kept this limited thinking until 2011 when I saw guys in California having a blast on them. Jim Brothen had been doing it in Maui and I had scoffed at the idea, refusing to believe how fun he said it was. I thought I’d have no problem getting used to it since I windsurfed the waves frequently. Wrong. Yet, I still had a fun time getting thrown around in the waves. I took a lesson in the harbor, was surprised how much I enjoyed it even in flat water, and proceeded to open a school where I could share my stand up paddle skills with others. My kiting friends had told me how fun foiling was, yet I had heard about a variety of injuries during the learning process. When I first saw windsurf foiling I promised myself that I would not make the same mistake with this new sport. Last April I picked up a sail from a top sailor in San Francisco. He raved about foiling, showed me his new $4000 LP foil and said it was worth every penny. He said his most used sail was in the mid-7M and suggested the sail I got, a 7.8M three cam Loft Switchblade. This summer I pleaded with Bic to get me one of their carbon Kerfoils and they came through for me after a few weeks wait. I put it in my deep Tuttle Starboard Go and here are a few thoughts and observations after about sixty hours of riding.

When the foil came it took a fair amount of sanding to get it to fit my fin box. I think it was one of the earlier productions and the aft hole for the fin box screw was slightly angled. Thanks to a couple friends, Dave Holmes and Judd Nelson, we were able to get a vertical placement on the screw, even though the foil would carry a 1.2 degree angle from vertical.
I reviewed some of the instruction on the Internet, put on my full wetsuit and helmut and went out for my first try, apprehensive about possible injury. The conditions were light with occasional 15-20mph gusts. When I sheeted in for the first gust I could hear the foil hum and then felt the lift. It was unusual and I fell off the board, to the side. After that first sensation of lift I didn’t fall off again. Basically, I was learning to trim the sail and find my body position for keeping the foil engaged. I would essentially get up, hold it for a few seconds, and then porpoise the nose down. During my first couple tries out, I could maintain flight for five to ten seconds, with occasional runs of close to half a minute. My tendency was to hold my breath, freeze my body position, and then lose flight due to my body tension. It’s important to be absolutely sure you have enough water depth and be free from aquatic plant life. Any weeds on the fuselage will kill your possibility for lift.
Each time I went out I prolonged my flight times. I stopped holding my breath and relaxed. I found it helpful to think of this more like flying…there’s a takeoff and landing. The takeoff takes extra thrust, but once you’re flying, the sail can be sheeted out. For sure, my 5M sail was easier and allowed a more extreme upwind angle. Yet, with the typical 5-20mph gusty winds we get, the 7.8M has been my most reliable engine, used 80% of my foiling time. The cams make for smooth on and off power and the sail feels light when flagged out once I’m flying. The key to flight is getting your board to speed, usually around 10-12 mph hour. It’s somewhat like stall speed for a plane. At first I was too disruptive when pumping onto plane, and now, unless the wind is steady, I hook in, bear off, unhook, and pump onto plane until the board releases from the water. My front foot is in the foot strap and my back foot pushes down on the board just where the foil screws are. I removed the back footsteps, finding them cumbersome, and now enjoy moving the foot freely without obstruction.
As I’ve progressed to long flights I’ve found it interesting to see how little I use the harness. Once flying, there’s very little back hand pressure. Even in the 20-30mph wind gusts, the 7.8M is easy to handle flagged out. I have tried a bigger sail and was unable to get the combo to work. I think 6.5-7.5M is about as big as you can go. I like my bigger sail because it gives the power to fly in lighter winds, flags out with ease, and keeps me flying in super light winds.
Just like learning to windsurf, it’s all about water time. Each time I went out my balance got better. No more holding my breath, I could start moving around without landing the board. It’s a delicate dance of trimming the sail and foot pressure. It’s very different from the heavy back hand pressure of high wind windsurfing and the way the back foot works. Body positioning is much more vertical and gross muscular movements disturb flight while subtle movements of rig, body and feet make all the difference.
Windsurf foiling is a dramatically different experience from windsurfing. It really is a combination of flying and sailing. If you’ve had experience of lengthy windsurf jumps, you have the experience of holding the attitude of rig and sail for flight. With foiling, you get to extend this for an entire session.
I’ve had the good fortune of foiling with a very experienced kite foiler and have made the following observations. He’s able to maintain flight in lighter conditions given the lower weight of the board, the uplift of the kite, and the capacity to sign the kite without disturbing the foil as much as pumping a sail would do. The downside is that when the wind drops to a certain level the kite falls out of the sky as he waits for the next gust. He’s also told me he’s been surprised with how the kite board on rare situations can load up and fly into the air during a fall. Launching is also much more versatile with windsurf foiling. When the weeds were too much on my lake I’d go to the river. The launches are more challenging and in most sites, impossible with a kite.
Flying is three dimensional. It’s easy on the joints, whereas our typical high wind bump and jump conditions can be brutal on the body. Encountering junky boat wake, the foil cuts smoothly through it. It’s quiet, except for some humming I get off my foil. Adjustments of the foot and rig can play the board like wave riding, only you’re in the air. I can have a flat water day and still get the up/down body sensations similar to a day of wave sailing.

Yes, foils are not cheap. The typical carbon foil will be $1200-3000. Neil Pryde has an aluminum one for under $800. Yet, I’ve enjoyed day after day of awesome riding which I previously would have been frustrated with. Our winds are generally not steady and we’re usually out there fishing for the next gust. We used to do this with very expensive light air windsurfing equipment. Today’s price for a light air board, carbon rig and monster sail is simply cost prohibitive to most. For me, it’s no where near as exciting as foiling. I hope you don’t make the same mistake I did with SUPing. If you have a deep Tuttle short board with a good tail width (20” plus), get a foil and try it out. Most foil dedicated boards are heavily reinforced at the fore of the fin box where there’s great pressure. So far, my Starboard Go is holding up. Look at the specs of the current foil boards and see how close your existing shortboard is. I am looking forward to trying out the new breed of foil boards. I’m particularly interested in trying the boards you can windsurf and SUP foil with.

For those of you with intermediate to advanced windsurf skills, you gotta give this a go. It’ll open up your water time just like SUPing has for those non-wind days. I’m very grateful to Bic for getting me the friendly Kerfoil and to all the brilliant designers who’ve brought this equipment to such a user friendly point.

_________________
Ride...just be it!
www.just-be-it.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:08 am
Posts: 53
Great article Randy. I have toyed with the idea of foiling but figured I might be a little past my prime. Glad to see you are going for it. I have wondered being that our winds are so inconsistent how difficult is to maintain lift. I would also imagine you need to sail somewhere that is deep water and free of weeds. I have watched several videos of people building their own foil and they are very cool. Good luck riding love to come and watch it looks like a hoot.
Hutch


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:17 am
Posts: 673
Location: Rochester
Great info Randy! I see this in my future, soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:42 pm
Posts: 958
Location: MN, USA, Earth
Randy, Thanks for the writeup! I'll do the same a bit later and share what my thougts are on the subject. Right now it seems it's wide open for what works and what doesn't. I made the plunge last year after seeing my friend Warren (Wardog) from http://supsports.com add a tuttle box to one of his 8'5" Hammer SUPs and post some pictures of him flying around on it. I decided to go for it and got a 9'5" Hammer as an all around board (SUP,WindSUP,Fish,Windfoil) - got the last Go Foil Maliko he had, glad I did as they were hard to come by later. Here's a pic of the rig and a little video Tighe did earlier this year - This was the most flight time I'd had up to that point, but, as you point out, each session seems to be a learning experience and gets better and better!

Tighe's video: https://vimeo.com/225352752

Image

Image

And I've continued to buy all sorts of adapters, wings, masts, nuts and bolts. You guys that want to try it next year will find some good deals at the swap for this stuff as "the Ride" continue to evolve. Right now I'm stoked at going a slow as possible, no straps and carving on swell while letting the sail "flag out". I'm on the other end of the specturm as far as sails go, I'm liking wave sails and recently got a couple Ezzy Taka's that have 3 battens. I had a 4.7M out today with my new contraption - Old Starboard GO 150, Slingshot Tuttle adapter and 30 inch "Flight School" mast, Slingshot "Swichfuse" and H2 front wing (from the FSurf kit) big slow lifty wing. It's actually faster than the Go Foil Maliko as that one is meant for SUP/Surfboards to catch waves on. Believe me, it will catch waves - the sail just becomes like a paddle in the air, grabbing a bit of power here and there to stay on foil.

Image

Image

So stoked about all this!

Randy we should hook up and compare notes and rides!

And Pete, you'll be a natural, It feels like snowboarding in the air, carving endless trenches in the swell troughs :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:18 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Minnetonka
Nice thread guys! I'm in the game also. No doubt it is very tricky in the beginning - but it definitely gets easier the more you do it.
Other tips that help: look at the distant shore line to help balance yourself with the board and the rig. The biggest issue is over-correcting with your body weight and foot placement.
Also, play with the mast foot placement to help find the the best balance point - which is elusive.
Some of the footage of the experts and the pros is amazing. Check out the footage of the pros using foils on the World Cup Slalom tour which has really extended their light wind racing capabilities.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:42 pm
Posts: 958
Location: MN, USA, Earth
Robae'! I remember last year when you showed my your new foil. My eyes bugged out! I think that was also an incentive to get on the band wagon. You're also very right about mast foot placement. I'm moving my further and further back.

You have to kind of think of the mast foot as another foot, so you got 3 now no matter what your mom tells you. Sheet in heavy , sheet out light pressure. I've moved my mast foot WAY back and my wing WAY forward - I'm trying to emulate the stance of kiters, very vertical. My feet move around on the board a lot too from pumping to plane, steady riding, riding over powered and riding down wind. Not sure how you guys are doing it with front strap, I would try but every time I look down at my feet they are not even close to anything that a strap or hook could go into, even with ALL of those darn beginer inserts on the GO, not one spot :) I think I moved the foil back more I might have a chance but that makes the mast foot/center of lift distance too large for me to figure out. Currently running about 25-27 inches between center of mast foot an guesimate of center of lift on the front wing. I'll have to check your guys' setups!!!

Hooked in as much as I can be to save arms for the fun stuff like riding almost straight down wind with the swell. This is where the small light rigs are fun. I want to feel like surf/SUP pumping with feet to stay on foil and only grabbing wind when I need to. Sometimes you can let go of the sail - I'm going to shoot for a "boomerang" next year, finally making a few jibs past downwind on foil coming out clew first - no good sail flips or foot changes yet ;-)

Heading out to Waconina now - hope for another foil session - feel free, anyone, to ask if they can give it a shot. Just gotta promise to stay deep, those WAC rocks are tuff on the wings :(

Unboxing June 22 2017 - 9'5" Hammer http://supsports.com :)

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:42 pm
Posts: 958
Location: MN, USA, Earth
Waconia was a blast today! To windy to windsurf foil?

Code:
16:53   S 20 G 29   
15:53   S 26 G 35
14:53   S 22 G 32
13:53   S 17 G 28   
12:53   S 17 G 36   
11:53   S 16 G 24   


NO WAY! Well, sometimes ;-) I was out on 4.7M Taka and Rob was out on a 5.4M I think. Was really good to be out there learning and sharing with another Windsurf Foiler. With 2 sails and modest skills I think we can cover a lot of conditions. Rob kept the same sail all day and was switching between all sorts of boards! Here he is unpacking. Good luck getting thru McDonalds drive thur with that! ;)

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:18 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Minnetonka
Nice pic Admiral S! Great to share the H2O with you and the rest of the WAC regulars!
That indeed that was some great sailing and stoke at the WAC! A classic day complete with new toyz to play with.
I sailed about 4 hours both today and yesterday. I only rigged and used my 5.3M NP Combat - but did use 4 different boards with very satisfying results!
Sailing the foil is still pretty challenging but progress definitely continues.
I could feel the gusts hit the foil as I drove my Suburban sideways to the strong south breeze on Highway 5. :shock:
I probably will not load the fin box like that again - As it's getting plenty loaded in the H2O as it is! :wink:
And low bridges could be an issue...
Looking forward to next time!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:42 pm
Posts: 958
Location: MN, USA, Earth
Professor Robae' wrote:
Looking forward to next time!

Next time is today! I'm gonna try to get out to Waconia around noon. I'll bring both SUP and Starbaord GO 150 (which I noticed yesterday I damaged with trying to get too creative with the Power Plate and Switchfuse fuselage - I created too much leverage and the front of the power plate dug into the "V" and some water got it. It was draining in the sun yesterday at Washington. I'll add a little Puka Patch for today - Anyone know of good local board builder/repair - I'm thinking it might be fun to cut the tail off the GO 150 and put another tuttle box or parallel US fin boxes (ala Kiteboards) further forward so I don't have to use the super long fuselage to get the wing where I like it.

Jerry Sandell mentioned a guy named Diego. Does this person frequent the board or can someone put me in contact with him or her or another person that might want a project. I will pay :-)

Power Plate pics (caution!)

Image
Image

Damage to GO 150:

Image

If anyone wants to give it a "GO" let me know - use your own rig that you are comfortable with and I suggest a small one to get the feel of what's happening under the water even before you get lift off :)

If it has a foil, RIDE IT!

Image

Peace!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:42 pm
Posts: 958
Location: MN, USA, Earth
Dale Cook and Bruce Peterson out in the Gorge doing some jibes and stuff...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOUU33-xnww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO55CVdZ6OM

Dreaming to Fly...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:42 pm
Posts: 958
Location: MN, USA, Earth
This is the style of riding that I'm working towards. Slow, small sail and using any wave/chop power that is available to power the glide. It's a really cool feeling sheeting all the way out and riding down a bump with the big foils!

https://vimeo.com/243522731

Frame from video...

Image

Dreaming of spring already :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:04 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Where eva da wind at Brah
Robbie Naish doing a little foiling R&D at Kanaha and holding a clinic with Brian "Irie Mon" Talma and Kai Lenny.

He just closed the Naish retail store here in Maui :(, says even though windsurfing sales are still good in Europe and Asia they are down in the U.S. - but foiling firing up everywhere.


Attachments:
20170929_164235.jpg
20170929_164235.jpg [ 73.96 KiB | Viewed 7830 times ]
20171112_1452231.jpg
20171112_1452231.jpg [ 151.43 KiB | Viewed 7830 times ]
20171112_1503061.jpg
20171112_1503061.jpg [ 483.46 KiB | Viewed 7830 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:37 pm
Posts: 264
Hey, Chris, so good to hear from you! And, looking so badass hanging out with the one and only Legend of the Sport! Hope the Aloha Spirit is alive and well for you and yours.

Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 10:01 am
Posts: 654
Location: Forest Lake
So glad you made the move, Chris. Awesome photos and just have to see if you met up with Brian Talma. He's the Barbadian in the second photo...black skin, blonde hair and green eyes.. He's the 'what's the action, Man' guy. We traveled through Europe together several years back... One of the most inspiring guys I've ever met...so great to see him next to another of my greatest inspirations, Robbie. Actually, most of you guys in this chat room...doing what we love, exploring the future of a new sport. I'll be taking my foil to California coast for Jan-March. Seems the water has finally gotten hard up here. Sure would love another trip to Maui....

_________________
Ride...just be it!
www.just-be-it.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:04 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Where eva da wind at Brah
Hey good to hear from you guys. Miss sailing with the die-hard MN crew but the water here is indeed much softer - and three dimensional to boot! Some intimidating big winter waves starting to ramp up, still trying to wrap my head around the awesomeness of them while gradually getting lured deeper and deeper into the maelstrom each day.
We'll probably be back for a few months this summer and I'm already looking forward to a Gorge trip with the yearly Minnesota Exodus.
Like the Gorge, there are lots of people here from all over, all with their own stories, but here for the same reason, pretty great.
Randy, thats so cool that you got to travel with Brian, I haven't really talked to him but he's definitely the most recognizable guy around, always smiling and super pumped. Must be that special Irie Mon Magic Sailing Elixir available only in Barbados. Hope you make it back out to Maui soon. Have fun in Cali.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:42 pm
Posts: 958
Location: MN, USA, Earth
We love you Chris! It was really awesome seeing you that one time this summer at the Wac. You are god like in my windsurfing journey along with many others here.

PS, in a few hours we'll be riding hard water. Jerry Sandell is now the proud owner of that Rushwind green quiver you sold me over a century ago :) I'll get a picture and post - still in great shape.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:42 pm
Posts: 958
Location: MN, USA, Earth
Not Windsurf Foiling but almost - flying silently over the ice ;-)

Chris, Here's one of those sails on Sandell's board. It was a good day. We were thinking of you.

Image

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:04 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Where eva da wind at Brah
Awesome thx Eric, brings back memories and glad to see its still being put to use!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:42 pm
Posts: 958
Location: MN, USA, Earth
I'll keep piling on this thread. Got a couple more sails and mast to fill out my "foil quiver" for next year. I hope the Ezzy Taka's work out they are an interesting sail and had the 4.7 and 4.1 out end of season on some really big days on the Go Foil Maliko wow!

So here's the new ones. I think I got a fair deal on them. The guys at solo sports were awesome to deal with and I hope to get down there to PCS next summer and ride a wave or two. I've never ridden on ocean wave on a windsurfer, only swell.

The goods!

Image

Largest Taka the 5.3

Image

Four batten Elite - I got a feeling this will be my most used sail - It will be the largest in the quiver - selling my big boom HPL, Powerex mast and Sailworks Retro 7.5 i think...

Image

these for $800

complete quiver will be:

Sails:
Ezzy 6.1 Elite
Ezzy 5.3 Taka 2
Ezzy 4.7 Taka 2
Ezzy 4.1 Taka 2

Ezzy Hookipa 430, 400
Ezzy Legacy 370


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Next revolution: Windsurf Foiling
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:42 pm
Posts: 958
Location: MN, USA, Earth
Bruce Peterson of Sailworks shows of his new "Flyer" foil specific sail. Not the direction I'm headed to yet (cams) but I definitely understand. The Ezzy's I'm sailing are very loose but you do need enough loading to get the luff pocket to fill out. It will be fun to see where this all goes. I'm still in the sail vertical camp for now... Go Bruce!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYqOtJDkpJ4

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO