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 Post subject: Jumping technique Pointers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:52 pm
Posts: 317
Ok, on Sunday it was windy enough so I decided to try my first real go for it jump.
I was on Starboard, kite (bow) at 11, edged hard, brought it to 12 and up I went! Very very quiet. I did a complete 360 rotating to my right and I landed HARD on my right side, bounced up again, another jump, unintended, and landed on my chest. Lines were twisted but I was able to depower and gain control. I think I was sheeted the whole time. The spin was disorientating so I had no feel for where my kite was or should have been. Any suggestions? It's starting to get really fun!!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:16 pm 
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I'm not nearly a pro freestyler like others but I do have one trick, which is to go up and land feather smooth, so I'll give it a try.

What I tell most people starting to jump is start small and teach yourself all the motions first. As you know, the first time you go up...and the next time you go up 5 ft higher, you want your body on autopilot because you'll be freaking out.

Start at a good speed across the wind. You shouldn't be fighting to windward and you shouldn't be heading down wind. In light winds you can head off the wind and gain speed and then carve to windward just after sending it.

Start with the kite high, at say 11:00 and redirect the kite back and over your shoulder. I say redirect, because you want to turn the kite and then straighten it so that it heads over your shoulder and not up and over the powerzone in an arc. (though you can do that in super light winds on a bow to get extra boost) Another thing to note is that when you redirect, don't pull down on the bar. Steer the kite and keep it flying fast.

Once the kite leaves your view, lean to windward. Later on you can crank to windward to add more height to your jumps but early on a slight lean to windward will add just a bit more tension on those lines. As you lean, hold your back leg taught to dig your edge. This all happens in a few seconds, then spring foward slightly and upwind. Slightly at first and more and more pronounced as you get better. Timing here is super important. Spring too early and your kill the lift, spring too late....and you most likely will have gotten ripped out of your straps before your could spring.

As soon as you are in the air, or even as you spring, you can pull on your front hand to redirect the kite back in the direction you are going. The hand motions are what you want to get down first. Pull back...1,2,lean, pull front. Do this over and over to commit the motion to muscle memory. Also fous on what your weight is doing. Roll your wt. to windward, then drive it through an arc downwind lead by your board and your head. You want to land going almost downwind. Visualize that line you'll take and follow it with your head, not unlike skate skiing.

As you get this down. Start the kite a bit lower and send it a bit further back. The higher you start it, the more vertical your jump, the lower you start it the longer you go but you can land hot. (though this is very controllable with bows)

Pointers:
Let the centerlines/harness pull you up. Do not pull the bar in to lift yourself up, you'll just be choking off the kite and it will stall overhead. Once you dial the technique you can pull in a bit once in the air to get a bit more ht, then let out to maximize your glide on the way down and to keep the kite in front of you.

Your release from the water is very important. Your description sounds like you may have had a poor release from the water and your board spun you around. Your spring should help. If you see some chop use that. I see a lot of people jumping downwind, and having their boards stick to the water. They've rolled the board so that the whole underside is in the water. You'll never get that to lift up. Jump to windward from an edge and it should release cleanly.

As you get your small jumps dialed, start cranking more and more to windward as you send it. It will stabilize your jump and give the kite more lift. The kite doesn't know the difference between getting hit by a gust and you cranking to windward. In both cases it generates more lift. Speed also helps, since you're going the opposite direct as the kite.

As your jumps get higher you have the option to leave the kite pointed into the wind as you go up, then as soon as you start coming down redirect it though this can pendulum you under the kite. Keep the kite moving with you. If you feel like the kite is upwind of you, usually letting up on the bar a bit, accellerates the kite and brings it overhead.

I usually pull in and stall the kite as I land, it makes for soft landings. You need to make sure the kite is in front of you when you do this, so that simply letting out a bit powers it up again and keep you rippin. If it is overhead and you stall it, you'll land soft and sink.

As I mentioned before I have discovered that you can start a bow quite low and send it up and over the power zone quite far back then slowly redirect it so it swoops around and up to the top of the window. If it keeps moving fast it will generate lift all the way through. The timing is really tricky on this one though. Vojta does an amazing job at this move in the lightest winds. The tendancy is for the kite to stall at the back of the window...not good.

hope that helps.

fun times ahead

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Tighe


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:42 pm 
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Location: St. Louis Park, MN
I'm glad your having fun Dean. The spin sounds a little bit extreme for your first jump. The first thing you need to do is control your body so you don't do that. Right after poping off the water bring your legs up into a crouch position. I've found that really helps in keeping you straight while in the air.

Speed is the key to really big air, so I'd suggest slowing it down a little for your first tries. Also, jumps are alot more fun if you get the load and pop timed right. The key is edging hard upwind right before getting ripped off the water. As your leaving the water give the suface a little slap with the tail of your board. That will give you more control in the air and much more height on your jump.

It sounds like you did the right thing with the kite, not that I would know how to do anything with a bow. I tend to send it a little farther back in the window with my C's. That kills your forward speed and gives you more height, but it makes landing with speed a little harder.

Darlene on her bow was asking for advice on friday, and I told her to ride with speed, with the bar out a ways, then send the kite and pull in the bar all the way for maximum height. Then Tighe came along and told her not to pull in the bar because you can oversheet the kite and make it stall. I guess that is possible with the great angle of attack adjustment abilities of the bow kites.

Really the key is to just go for it and learn as you wipe out. Try playing with the height of the kite when you start to send it, and how hard you send it. Don't forget to bring it back around and get it in frount of you before you land, or you will be relaunching often.

Good luck and SEND IT. :twisted:

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Eric


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:26 pm 
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Wow!! Thanks guys, that is really helpful. I think I had a death grip on that bar once I jumped. And I may have sent that kite back farther than I thought. I know I did not even think about redirecting the kite. My board wound up 50 yards upwind so I must have gone down wind. Positive points: I have finally ditched the board leash while riding, it was like a pacifier, I was able to see and retrieve my board, and I really really want to do that again.....like today! With help like this and vitamin I, I think the old dog can learn a new trick.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:57 pm 
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Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
Hey evil knieval...you didn't say which way you rotated but I'm guessing it was to the front, the most common early jump whoops. It's caused by having a little more preassure on that back foot as you leave the water and it kicks you into a slow forward rotation ( been there done that!) :oops: Remember how you did it because it will help with your forwards later.
The way to stop it is send the kite, just before your instincts tell you you're about to leave the water ( kite at 5 minutes to 12),carve gently up wind a little. It gets a little more tension in your lines ( more pop ) and orientates your body to stop the forward rotation. Then follow Tighe and Erics advise, tuck the knees, and pull on the front hand ( with your hands near the center of the bar so you don't oversteer) if you're coming into land too fast push the bar out and fly the kite back to 12 a little, then pull on your front hand again to give a little power to pull you out of the landing.
Best things I can suggest is don't watch the kite, keep your head up and watch the horizon and then start looking to spot your landing as you come down. Watching the kite is disorientating. It's better to develop the feel of what your kites doing during the jump. I give my kite a quick glance to make sure it's at 11 to start the jump and then ignore it. I focus on holding my edge, a little carve up wind, tucking my knees, maybe doing a grab ( very good for stabilizing you in the air) spotting the landing, point the board off the wind to land, let out a whoop of joy that you're still alive.
Slow the breathing and look for the next gust to jump on.
Make sure you jump riding both ways...force yourself to do it, it's easier doing it now than trying to fix it later when you only jump one way.
Though it may seem contrary the bigger the jump is the easier it is to control, you have more time to think about what you're doing, just "send it" as typically the technique will limit how big your jump is, and your spherical objects will grow in line with your improved technique.
And yes it does freak everyone out in the beginning and every time you go higher than you have before your eyes go :shock: but thats the fun...go scare your self.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:44 pm 
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This is like the perpetual Chia Pet, just add wind, water, scare yourself and watch em grow. Isn't there always a new black diamond just around the corner and the voice that says " go ahead...you can do it"? Steve I think I rotated backwards. I was on starboard and I rotated into the wind to my right. I was trying to watch my kite which I now understand is not necessary or even helpful. As always thanks again for your helpful riding tips. Can't wait to scare myself again!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:44 pm
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Location: U of M
just send it... pop... then crank down as hard as you can with your back hand and loop it....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:13 pm
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Location: Tierra Verde, Florida
This is good stuff...... I'm standing in front of my computer going thru the motions! I haven't had any scary jumps like Dean's......with my bow, I have been pulling in on my bar & holding it there because I thought it would give more lift, but now I realize it's stalling the kite out. Also I've been watching my kite, I need to spot my landing....

Even with all these great tips, I'm still a little confused....after sending it to 12:00-1:00 and bringing it back to 10:00, what should I do with the kite while I'm in the air?

Tighe, when you say "The higher you start it, the more vertical your jump, the lower you start it the longer you go".......what does "longer" mean? If it doesn't mean higher, what's the point of doing that?

Darlene 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:41 pm 
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Location: Here, Now
Darlene.

Once you redirect the kite in the direction you are going it will continue in a straight line in that direction, with you underneath it. If you find it isn't coming with you, let your bar out, if you find that it is racing in front of you too quickly pull the bar in and slow it down. Your weight pulling down on it has the same effect on the kite as a wind hitting it so it will continue to fly even though it is near neutral and probably not even facing the wind. If you land with it up there you'll notice the kite stops and so will your power. Dive it quickly then.

What I meant by that statement was that jumps that are started with the kite higher in the sky tend to be pops straight up and not much downwind. They are harder to land powered up and moving. Starting the kite lower usually ends up in a jump that takes your further downwind and coming in hard. You want to be somewhere in between.

Typically the stronger the wind the higher up you want to start the jump. Speed and how fast you bring the kite back into the window also effect how far you go downwind. I have found with the new kites that you can bring the kite back down into the window much more aggressively that older kites because if land too powered up you can always depower them enough to set an edge.

I like Tyson's idea. Just start looping the kite from the get go. You won't have to remember which hand to pull to bring the kite back. Just pull the kite up, then pull harder and hang on. Just kidding....

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Tighe


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:31 pm
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Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
Darlene...with a bow if you sheet in you slow the speed the kite will fly at, so sheeting in as you send the kite back reduces the amount of whip you get from the kite.
Bow technique is to start the kite at 11, have the bar 3/4 of the way out, send the kite to 12 ( or a little past 12) as you leave the water sheet in the bar to power up the kite ( more air). if you start the jump with the kite at 10 or lower you will get a low jump which travels a long distance over the water, it will also be a fast jump covering the distance quickly and typically the landing is fast. ( read "ouch")
A good trick is to move your hands to the middle of the bar before you start the jump(stops you over correcting the kite and :shock: ), send the kite and as soon as you're in the air start to pull on your front hand, this will keep the kite over your head during the jump phase and start to power you out of the landing in the back on the water phase.


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 Post subject: first jumps
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 11:34 am
Posts: 592
Location: Buffalo - Lake Pulaksi
As another newbe to jumping I took Jerry's advice to actually watched the kite the first few times as I was sending from the 11 position. How can you argue with the fun hogger ? The point was to focus on the jumps, the timing and how the bar movements and position of the kite worked with the jump - screw the landing. I think this helped me understand what I needed to do and then could take the focus off watching the kite and try to accomplish what Steve and Tighe have been commenting on. I now realize most of my crashes on the landings could have been corrected if I had thought about landing going downwind instead of landing flat across wind and the board sliding out from under me - I thought I should be able to catch the back edge to land but for lack of skill It wasnt working for me on the bigger jumps in the chop.

Anyone have good recomendations on instructional videos ? one thing to try to picture what you guys are saying vs watching it in slow motion on a good instruction video.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:17 pm 
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Location: Here, Now
Real kiteboarding has a really good new instructional series of DVDs.

Just for clarification, Steve you mention riding with the bar at 3/4 way out prior to the jump. Obviously this depends upon how you have the adjustment strap set. Many riders with shorter arms are riding comfortably with the power just up from the bar. Also be careful pulling in upon take off. This does add height to the jump but only if you are jumping really powered up. In normal riding conditions, this might be choking the kite too much and slowing it down and making it less responsive to your inputs. When good and powered, yes pull slowly and you go up and up. Then just be sure to let out at the top to regain your speed and lift for a long flight back to the water. Letting it out also keeps you from penduluming under the kite.

As someone else mentioned, so much of this is timing and feel. Nothing rocket science about it, just takes practice.

enjoy

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Tighe


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:48 pm 
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Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
Sorry I forgot...if you ride cabrinhas, because you can't choke them off, as you take off sheet in to the max. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:03 am 
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steveb wrote:
Sorry I forgot...if you ride cabrinhas, because you can't choke them off, as you take off sheet in to the max. :D


I guess I would concur with Steve on that on if you ride a Cabby. I yank the bar all the way in to the CL to boost and then adjust accordingly while in the air. If you have the back line adjustment set on the 3rd knot (closest to the kite) for lighter wind, it may choke it a bit. But I guess I don't have too much worry about choking off a Cabby when pulling the bar all the way in.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:29 am 
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Interesting. I wonder if this means that the bridle arrangement on the Cabbys (vs the TDs) makes it so that bar movement has less of an effect on the kite (since they both have pulleys). I can see where that would make sense since the TDs are very sensitive, some say too sensitive. They also don't have the knot adjustment on the bridle that the Cabbys have. That's a solid approach. Make the bar movement less critical, reducing the chance of stalling and error, though still give the ability to get the full range out of the kite through a tunable bridle. The upside is that this may be the reason TDs seem to have more range.

Still a bit hard for me to imagine that in normal to underpowered conditions that you get more lift from pulling in, powering up though slowing the kite down than from letting it accellerate overhead and generating lift from speed. I know when I am good and powered up that is definitely the way to go, but most light wind riding I let it accelerate.

Then again I'm riding one kite in all conditions and you guys have 3 kites so are most likely riding more powered up.

For those of you learning this stuff. Just experiment with your kite and see what works. Be sure to try different techniques when the wind changes. Don't forget you can also use your adjustment strap to ensure that even when the bar is pulled in all the way that the kite is still powered up.

ride on

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Tighe


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 Post subject: unhooked with TD ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:45 am 
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Location: Buffalo - Lake Pulaksi
This brings up a question for me on riding unhooked. I havnt tried it but the appeal of riding onhooked is huge coming from teh wakeboard background where handle placement is key. How does the TD re-act when riding unhooked if by pulling the bar all the way in can choke off the kite ? if you unhook isnt that the same as pulling the bar all the way in ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:50 am 
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i'm new to the whole unhooked thing too, but from the few times i've done it and manged to get any decent pop i really preferred the Cs over the bows. the td didn't seem to choke as long as you preset the depower correctly -- but its just so damn fast you have to pay attention to it where the Cs just kinda sit there


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:12 pm 
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Ok, maybe I was confusing. The TDs only choke when pulling the bar in when a) you are riding with the power up position very high on the chicken loop (ie. arms extended) and you pull in all the way, or b) you are in very light winds and the kite isn't flying that fast in the first place. Both can be eliminated by adjusting the adjustment strap.

And as Tyson mentioned when I've adjusted the adjustment strap so the power is full on with the bar touching the chicken loop you can ride unhooked, though it turns so fast it's hard to keep it still. Then again I do not ride that way that much.

ride on

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:16 pm 
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Location: sblain@frontiernet.net
I think if unhooked is your thing and you want bow style you should look at the Link, the new switchblade 2, the norths, flexifoil Ion. or the old C style.
If you like freeriding and don't unhook the bows are for you.

One of the things thats apparent is even in bows there is a lot of variety of performance even though they look similar.

The cabrinhas don't allow a set up which will choke the kite, negative is you may not get the low end of a TD, but get more top end as all the settings are for a fast kite. I have the switchblade 1's , crossbows and one contra, it is amazing on kites that look similar how different the flying characteristics are. The SB's turn faster but are a little slower flying sitting back in the window a little , makes for a very smooth kite, not quite as high a performance but very predictable, the crossbows are fast turning and very fast flying with loads of range, they are explosive kites with a lot of performance speed and boost. The contra has more low end grunt, it's a fast flyer but turns a little slower, once hooked onto the wind it has an efficient shape that just wants to pull you along as fast as possible, it is the glider of the Cab line, really long hang time. Now the new SB2 which I have not flown yet is coming out and it's more like the link, a hybrid kind of kite.
I reference the Cabs just because they are what I know and I wanted to highlight the differences in 3 similar looking kites, so as Tighe says experiment and see what works with your kite.
I think it also shows we should try each others stuff a little more just to see what kites turn your crank.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:06 pm 
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hmm

I might call you on that one Steve. I have not really found a top end to my 12m TD. I remember one really windy day (30-35mph) on Spirit when I was kiting on my 12m and having a blast....and you were?

I still think it's that the SS Keep it Simple approach, has them giving you the full range of the kite from the bar, whereas Cabs seem to have given you a few sets of ranges, that you can choose for the day based on which knot you use. I of course know very little about Cabs, but this is from things I've heard.

The choking comment I made earlier actually applies to almost all kites, including C's. Sheeting in in lighter winds will slow down any kite and reduce it's lift. In powered up conditions you are able to sheet in as you go up because you're not resisting the kite any more with an edge so you won't slow it down much. The only reason I made the comment is I see a lot of people pulling themselves into the air on their jumps, instead of letting the centerlines do their job.

Most of this is crazy talk cause almost all of us are after powered up sessions anyway.

ride on

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